[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Another thing is if you think your oil filter bypass valve only opens occasionally. It opens more than you think it does, each time sending unfiltered oil to the wear surfaces, most times is when it really should be sending filtered oil to the wear surfaces.

When the oil is cold and the fuel air mixture is enriched. Rowing it through the gears at higher than usual RPMs, racing. All these conditions are elevating blow by particulate to the crankcase. An article from BITOG about filter bypass valves and when they open.

This too can be argued. How long does it take for the capacity of oil in the pan to circulate? Couple mins? If that. So you idle for say 3-5 min, on a warmed up engine, and all the oil has passed through the filter, right? Under no load? Then you make a blast/pass. How much contaminates are going to be produced in that time? It's not going to be saturated, right? So the next few mins of normal driving, all the oil passes through the filter. So it gets filtered. It's not like the oil is in bypass 80% of the time.

Which brings up another point, how long does it take for the entire contents to pass through the bypass oil filtration system? Probably what, 3, 4, maybe 5 times as long as the primary filtration system?

Let's touch on Blackstone Labs. Who do they get their' funding from? Have you ever seen the movie 'Thank you for Smoking'?

Again, I'm not arguing the fact that there are benefits from running a bypass filtration system, I'm just questioning some areas that are not 'clear' to me, these are probably common consumer-type concerns/questions.

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[TedRamAirII]

[QUOTE=HWYSTR455;5500814]This too can be argued. How long does it take for the capacity of oil in the pan to circulate?

I would say most oil pumps can do 8-12 GPM @2500 rpm so.....30 seconds?

Couple mins? If that. So you idle for say 3-5 min, on a warmed up engine, and all the oil has passed through the filter, right? Under no load? Then you make a blast/pass. How much contaminates are going to be produced in that time? It's not going to be saturated, right? So the next few mins of normal driving, all the oil passes through the filter. So it gets filtered. It's not like the oil is in bypass 80% of the time.

I think unless the filter is new and clean, it would be interesting how much it actually does bypass. Bypassing the pressure relief on the pump a lot when cold, and then the oil bypassing the filter when the filter cant keep up with the flow. Cold or high pressure, its not being filtered.

Which brings up another point, how long does it take for the entire contents to pass through the bypass oil filtration system? Probably what, 3, 4, maybe 5 times as long as the primary filtration system?

Maybe 5 times longer, yes, but the oil is cleaner than it will ever be. Clean oil picks up contaminates and delivers them to the full flow filter which takes out "boulders" then the By Pass filter , takes out the "sand"

Let's touch on Blackstone Labs. Who do they get their' funding from? Have you ever seen the movie 'Thank you for Smoking'?

They have nothing to gain by "lying". If you dont like what they tell you, ignore them, they dont care. Just my Opinion. ; )

Again, I'm not arguing the fact that there are benefits from running a bypass filtration system, I'm just questioning some areas that are not 'clear' to me, these are probably common consumer-type concerns/questions.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

This too can be argued. How long does it take for the capacity of oil in the pan to circulate? Couple mins? If that. So you idle for say 3-5 min, on a warmed up engine, and all the oil has passed through the filter, right? Under no load? Then you make a blast/pass. How much contaminates are going to be produced in that time? It's not going to be saturated, right? So the next few mins of normal driving, all the oil passes through the filter. So it gets filtered. It's not like the oil is in bypass 80% of the time.

Which brings up another point, how long does it take for the entire contents to pass through the bypass oil filtration system? Probably what, 3, 4, maybe 5 times as long as the primary filtration system?

Let's touch on Blackstone Labs. Who do they get their' funding from? Have you ever seen the movie 'Thank you for Smoking'?

Again, I'm not arguing the fact that there are benefits from running a bypass filtration system, I'm just questioning some areas that are not 'clear' to me, these are probably common consumer-type concerns/questions.

.

Blackstone labs is one of the most respected oil analysis labs in the US, headquartered in Fort Wayne IN. They have no dog in this fight so they have no reason to slant anything.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

They only do oil analysis as a third party, they have no interest in oil, filters, or additives. I believe they are as neutral as they could be as they have seen and recommended by their analysis when oil is safe to run further to fleet operator and industrial clients.

I assumed most people here knew who they, Blackstone was, so I was wrong in that assumption, and I've now clarified that.

In case anyone missed it the contaminants of the micron size under 30-40 has been dismissed as inconsequential. Posted above is the size of fine lapping compound (Abrasive paste used to burnish/polish small inconsistencies between a valve and a seat so they're matched). Fine lapping compound is in the 10-20 micron size. I would say that that size abrasive/contaminant is not benign as some would like to believe.

HWYSTR, You said you might be stubborn, I tend to believe stubborn as well as very wary of anything that is a change from your normal MO. Not sure how you got convinced that a 4L80E, fuel injection and roller cams are better than a carb, or a T400 with 3.08 gears or a RA IV cam with Rhodes lifters.........................

If you want to continue using a can filter that's fine, but please don't try to cast doubt on the information I've posted. To the best of my knowledge it's as factual as humanly possible. I did a lot of research before I spent $2500 to become a Frantz franchised dealer, as well as my own testing, on my dime on my own vehicles, is where I'm getting information from. And no I could care less if anyone buys a filter from me, the discussion is about advantages of by pass filtration over the full flow inline can filter and how limiting the design is in reference to efficiency.

To answer a few of your references even though some of them were already discussed in earlier posts

. A Frantz filter will absorb up to 6 ounces of any non petroleum soluble liquid. Be it antifreeze, water. It will not remove gasoline/diesel fuel and there is no technology that will remove that from oil. However the operating temp of oil most of the light hydrocarbons will evaporate from the oil and as you said, common sense dictates if your float stuck your not going to wait for the gas to evaporate.

Four quarts of oil will pass through the by pass filter in 5 minutes at idle. Since there is a 1/8 inch restrictor, oil pressure has little effect on capacity. Even a deep pan with extra capacity will filter the entire amount in under 10 minutes. One other thing is the Frantz by pass filter adds 1 quart to the oil system, it also has value of some cooling of the oil as it moves through the canister.

Any particulate that ends up in the pan is indeed going to be filtered as long as its' less than say 30-40 microns by the inline filter. Anything smaller is destined to keep circulating until the oil is changed, your choice there. I feel even though you want keep trying to shoot holes in my posts, you would agree that it will be finer rather than coarser material sailing past the rings in your example. Finer being destined to keep recirculating because the filtration system cannot remove it from the oil no matter how many times it circulates through the full flow filter it will remain in the oil until the oil is changed.

[HWYSTR455]

Why are you taking this personally? I'm not attacking you, or the bypass setups you praise, and I actually agree with your statements. And sure, I'm casting doubt, because like many others, my maintenance works for the life of my engines.

Why would you bring up off-topic stuff? Other than to throw stones? Are you telling me and others you think roller cams, OD transmissions, and fuel injection is inferior to carbs, Th400s, and HFT cams? That's not helping your case.

I just threw out questions others may have as well, and not want to cross some PC line and ask. I must have made some good points, or you wouldn't have been so offended and avoided answering the questions.

I'm an engineer-type personality, I didn't want to offend anyone here, I have questions, I ask them, that's how my brain works. Prove me wrong, I would be happy to admit, and happy I learned something that would benefit me. (and others for that matter)

On the other hand, throw some more stones and I will unsubscribe from this thread, and not clutter it with any more of my thoughts or questions. Others that don't get legitimate answers will just ignore the thread.

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