[Tom Vaught]

You are correct John on all of your points we discussed.

The Alternator 2 Wire Connector was clocked at 9:00 and the Bat Terminal was clocked at 12:00 (viewed from the front) when I received the car. The Positive Terminal was close to the 63 M/T Ribbed Valve Covers I had installed along with M/T Roller Rocker Arms.

When I was on the other side of the world, My brother drove the car. Apparently he had the Alternator Belt break somehow, and a new belt was installed from a parts house.

My brother was not a mechanic therefore all he cared about was getting back on the road.

So somewhere in my brother's story, the alternator rubber boot wound up being jammed against the Ribbed Valve Cover (when the "mechanic" tightened the belt he had) and the rubber eventually failed, the + post shorted out against the valve cover, and the wiring system was destroyed. The car was towed back to our home and it sat until I returned.

I eventually had the car again towed to a Pontiac Dealer who replaced the entire wiring system. $$$$

The original sin was the clocking of the alternator. Maybe would have worked fine with the chrome factory valve covers but it did not work well with the M/T covers obviously when the slight clearance, (3/8") was removed. I screwed up not knowing how to reclock the alternator correctly.

Tom V.

[War eagle]

John the 4th picture I posted shows the alternator with a "B". I am sure that would have to be a 55 amp 627. I will try and get some pics of my alts in a few days.

[remy30006]

Does anybody know if the upper alternator brackets are different on a 64 v-8 AC power steering car? If so need to locate some.

[War eagle]

John do you know if ordering the HD battery option also triggers the 55 Amp alt.? The 55 amp alternator triggers the HD battery. Another interesting item from the 4th picture of the convertible, and since you own one, electric over hydraulic powers the top. Would a HD batt seem to warrant the 55 Amp set up? What does your build sheet say for Battery code? (and or alt)

[War eagle]

remy does it have trips? Also upper alt brackets? Do you mean the upper adjust strap?

[War eagle]

I guess I answered my own question. Code C on the manifest is the HD batt and is the std. GTO battery. I have a manifest with the C batt and a "U" Alt. U must be the 37 amp job. So the 55 amp alt is std with A/C and if one could order a 55 amp alt as an option they would also get the Delco 558 HD batt. The HD batt does not trigger the 55 amp alt.

[remy30006]

Originally Posted by War eagle

remy does it have trips? Also upper alt brackets? Do you mean the upper adjust strap?

War Eagle not sure what you mean by trips. Its a 64 Lemans 326 ac power steering car. The power steering and lower alt mount looks completely different than non ac which makes me think the upper straps would be different. its missing the upper straps and water pump pulley. So I need to locate the correct ones but not sure what I'm looking for.

Also not sure how to read these manifests do I have any of these options being discussed on my GTO? I attached a picture of the manifest.

Thank you!

[John V.]

Not sure what you are asking, the Manifest record you posted is for a '64 GTO built at the Pontiac Plant.

What options are you curious about?

The Pontiac Plant Manifest is decoded by looking at each code box and adding the digit in the box to form the Sales Code.

For example, your Box No. 38 has a 2 in the box, that forms Sales Code 382.

This is the code for the GTO Package option.

Boxes 75 & 76 were used for the 2 digit portion of the Engine Code, in your case 78 means the engine assembly installed in this build was the Manual Trans 4 bbl 389 GTO engine, actual manifest code stamped on the engine assembly at the Engine Assembly Plant for this engine was 78X.

The W in the Transmission Box means the build included the M20 Muncie wide ratio 4 speed option, this code applied to all factory available axle ratios except 3.90. Code 9 was the wide ratio Muncie 4 spd used with 3.90 axle and code 8 was the very late year close ratio Muncie 4 spd which could be selected alternately but ONLY in combination with Tripower and 3.90.

When ordered, the W was supposed to be added as an additional stamped character at the Final Assembly Plant so the code on the Block would read as 78XW.

If you still have the original block, you might find that this added W was stamped haphazardly so that it might actually read as W78X or the W could be struck over the X or any number of other possibilities.

In the Production Instructions box you see SR PN GP GP.

These codes identify the manifest codes for the Front Springs, Rear Springs, Front Shocks, Rear Shocks.

All '64 GTOs got SR front springs except if it was optioned with AC.

All '64 GTOs got PN rear springs, no exceptions.

Your shock codes are the early year format and the codes are most likely shorthand for the color coding used for them. Later year, the coding was changed to the last 3 digits of the shock p/n.

Your shocks were the standard GTO shocks. Your GTO was NOT built with the Sales Code 621 Heavy Duty Springs & Shocks (which on a GTO this option ONLY changed the Shocks) nor the Sales Code 612 Rally Handling Kit.

Your Manifest includes a 1 in the left end of the "ACCY. GRPS." or accessory groups Box.

This indicates that the order for your GTO included the Sales Code 061 Basic Group option package.

The Basic Group consisted of:

Sales Code 392 Deluxe Pushbutton Radio with front fender mounted Manual Antenna.
Sales Code 412 additional custom foam added to the construction of the Tempest Bench Seat, this was NOT applicable to the Lemans Bucket Seats installed in the GTO, no special construction buckets were offered, so 412 not coded on your GTO manifest.
Sales Code 421 Two Speed Wipers with Washers
Sales Code 431 Heavy Duty Air Cleaner for the Tempest, not applicable to the GTO engines, no HD air cleaner offered for them, so 431 not coded on your GTO manifest.
Sales Code 471 Back-up Lamps in the Rear Bumper.

As expected all of these options are individually coded on your manifest.

Other options coded on your manifest are:

Sales Code 452 Tachometer
Sales Code 462 Deluxe Wheel Discs
Sales Code 624 Custom Front Seat Belts with Retractors

Front Seat Belts were made standard equipment after Dec. '63 so the price of the Sales Code 624 was reduced from $18.29 to $7.53. The Sales Code 411 standard front belts without retractors had been priced at $10.76 and when they were made standard equipment, the Base Price of all Tempest models was raised by $11 and the Sales Code 411 was removed from the Order Form (later in the year it reappeared as the Sales Code for the Wire Wheel Discs that had previously only been offered in '64 as a Dealer Accessory Package, not a factory option).

Your Pontiac Plant Data Plate on the firewall would be coded for Accessory Codes as:

2P-5N-5W

This "5 Group" accessory code system was used by Fisher Body and was only used to code options that affected the fabrication of the Body Assembly at the Fisher Body Plant.

2P coded the Back-up Lamps option
5N coded the GTO option
5W coded the Custom Front Seat Belts with Retractors option

Your Box 70 code is a bit unusual, coded 709, only other Pontiac Plant manifest that I can recall seeing with this code is the Wangers Red Car, it was approved with the special request 3.23 axle ratio.

The Box 71 code L identifies the 3.23 with the metallic brake option. That car was tested by Car & Driver and reportedly had 3.90 gears at that point, I've never understood why the order was entered for the Special Request 3.23 gears (standard gears for the Tripower GTO was 3.55 at the time this car was built so the 3.23 had to be approved as an available ratio for the combination and since it was, the Approval is indicated on the manifest).

The code 709 seemingly was to code the Safe-T-Track option but most Pontiac Plant builds with the Safe-T-Track option were coded differently.

Code 709 was intended to mean "Safe-T-Track with performance axle" and could be used for a regular Tempest order since economy and performance axle ratio choices were released as standard options but PMD did not issue a performance axle ratio for the GTO, if you wanted a ratio other than the standard release, you specified the actual desired ratio on the order and it had to then be Approved.

I suspect that the 709 was an order entry mistake by somebody that didn't understand how to specify axle ratios for a GTO.

Box 71 is coded K on yours, code K indicates the 3.23 axle ratio with standard brakes, this was the Standard Release axle ratio for the 4 bbl GTO.

I believe your manifest should have been blank in Box 69 and a 3 in Box 70 to signify the Safe-T-Track differential.

GTOs with standard brakes and open differentials would show a 1 in Box 69. GTOs with metallic brakes would show a 2 in Box 69 and a 3 in Box 70 for the Safe-T-Track (never seen one with metallic brakes and open differential although you could order it that way so they probably exist). GTOs with standard brakes and Safe-T-Track are normally blank in Box 69.

Boxes 72 & 73 indicate the tires, your 07 means your GTO was built with the 7.50x14 Red Lines. Many GTOs were built with the Whitewall tires as a no cost alternative, they are coded 06.

Paint Code VVA means it was Grenadier Red upper, Grenadier Red lower, and Black wheels (all builds with wheel cover options got Black wheels). Trim Code 19 was the Parchment interior trim.

Dealer code 12 703 means the car was sold to a Dealer in the St. Louis Zone, unfortunately I do not know the identify of Dealer no. 703 in that Zone. Mike Noun might have it, he makes awesome reproduction Window Stickers.

Sales Class B means the dealer did not use GMAC wholesale credit to finance his purchase from PMD, likely because he could not qualify, so he probably had a line of credit at his local bank, Sales Class B indicates "Other Dealer Credit". GMAC offered attractive terms to the dealers that could qualify, would show Sales Class A in that case.

The front alt strap for your 326 AC & PS Lemans is the same for any '64 V8 Tempest or big Pontiac with PS. The rear alt strap was also the same unless it had Tripower (trips) which had its own rear strap.

The alt strap on a '64 manual steer car is different and there was only one strap used.

The cast Bracket for the PS is p/n 545313.

This bracket was used on all '64 V8 Tempests and big Pontiacs with PS and also used on all of them with AC with and without PS.

The ONLY thing that changes when you add AC to the PS is the PS Pump pulley.

This pulley has 1 groove and it must align with the alt pulley groove. Earlier in this thread I discussed the pulley arrangement for the non-AC early and late PS set-ups. But the bracketry was always the same.

I'm not sure why you are saying the PS mount looks completely different on a non AC car?

The alt used with AC is 55A vs. 37A without but both were the original Delcotron Model 10DN alts, externally the same and mount the same.

Maybe post pix of the bracketry so we can see what you have.

W.E., I finally spotted the '65 alt adjustment illustration in the Resto Guide page 441, that is certainly helpful for anybody with the PS & AC combination although I don't know that it is valid for '64 since the Bracket in '64 was different but makes sense that it would be similar and they do say to put the alt against the inboard stop for initial (new belt) adjustment. I encourage others to read it for additional info regarding subsequent (worn belt) adjustment.

[1_Wild_Cat]

Nice post John V. - I got a better understanding of my own manifest out of that. Particularly the sales code and the accessory group.

Off topic and a bit of a thread hijack - but...

Were the accessory group packages priced differently than all the options added together individually? If so, does anyone know the price charged for accessory group 1?