[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

7, 8 paragraphs and he said nothing....damn long winded!
OK my turn, the fastest heads up Pontiac door cars are trading in their e-heads and others want too...hmmmm! The 2 quickest & Fastest Pontiacs in the World DONT have e-heads (one has Warp6 and the other has Billet RA5), Big Chief is switching from e heads, their all doing it for a reason, nuff said!


GTO GEORGE

And a good set of E heads will still drag your ass down the track!

The only reason KRE car with Warp 6 car is fast is that it is a best of the best light carbon fiber car!

Get off the computer and off KRE's nuts and go run that 7 second time slip!

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

And a good set of E heads will still drag your ass down the track!

The only reason KRE car with Warp 6 car is fast is that it is a best of the best light carbon fiber car!

Get off the computer and off KRE's nuts and go run that 7 second time slip!

This has NOTHING to do with KRE......get over it.
This thread is about you trading in your e heads for Billet heads!
Im done for the year getting ready for next year.


GTO George

[estep455]

Originally Posted by wreckmastr

I'll agree with that.

and some of us little guys that have accomplished quite a bit with e heads

[opeliac]

Holy crap, stop the presses...You mean evolution, in cylinder heads, applies to Pontiacs just like it does every other brand in existence??? Who would've even thunk it????

I bet you guys didnt know that the HEI isnt the best ignition anymore either...Bias ply tires have been replaced on most fast cars too...And lets not even begin to talk about improvements done to make better race fuels and oils...LOL...Some just live to run down things.

[johnta1]

Some just live to run down things.

That's the problem with some here.
Anytime there is new innovation in our Pontiac world, these guys have to blast it.
No experience with it but they'll slam it forever, without seeing the progress it has made.
They'll just revive old prejudices they have and try to 'shout' louder with their posts thinking they are winning.

[S/st 54]

Originally Posted by opeliac

Holy crap, stop the presses...You mean evolution, in cylinder heads, applies to Pontiacs just like it does every other brand in existence??? Who would've even thunk it????

I bet you guys didnt know that the HEI isnt the best ignition anymore either...Bias ply tires have been replaced on most fast cars too...And lets not even begin to talk about improvements done to make better race fuels and oils...LOL...Some just live to run down things.

Got tons of options for cylinder heads in the Pontiac world that's for sure!!!
Now if someone could just get it past their mind to let the evolution of Pontiac bore spacing grow so Pontiac guys could run Real Cubic inches that would be great!!!

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by S/st 54

Got tons of options for cylinder heads in the Pontiac world that's for sure!!!
Now if someone could just get it past their mind to let the evolution of Pontiac bore spacing grow so Pontiac guys could run Real Cubic inches that would be great!!!

People have cheated with bore spacing games (one hole up - one hole down) for bigger bores but Pontiac People seem to be the only ones who care about that bore spacing deal vs the rest of the automotive world. Everyone else "saw the light" and changed, Pontiac kept the bore spacing (from the original engine to the last 455 engine) so Pontiac People need to hold on to that one specification.
Kind of Like I wore a red shirt the first time I met my wife so I always have to wear a red shirt on my anniversary day, pure nostalgia and nothing more. Stupid really from a performance aspect to hinder your abilities to build a better engine.

Tom V.

Thank You Mr Butler for having chebby rod bearing cranks and chebby length PERFORMANCE connecting rods in a Pontiac engine.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by S/st 54

Got tons of options for cylinder heads in the Pontiac world that's for sure!!!
Now if someone could just get it past their mind to let the evolution of Pontiac bore spacing grow so Pontiac guys could run Real Cubic inches that would be great!!!

Jason,
I have never seen anywhere else someone (other than Pontiac people) say it is not are brand head because my stock valve cover will not bolt on. Much less you want to change bore spacing.

Stan

[S/st 54]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Jason,
I have never seen anywhere else someone (other than Pontiac people) say it is not are brand head because my stock valve cover will not bolt on. Much less you want to change bore spacing.

Stan

Right!
The heads up guys are having great success with there pro charger or twins on the standard Pontiac bore space block....the handful of them.....The NHRA/IHRA super class guys are continuing to make the switch to the big blocks because of the cubic inches and lower cubic dollar amount to run as fast or faster than their old Pontiac set ups.with a lower operating cost and the FAST/QUICK turnaround time to get parts!

To me it's whatever floats their boat at this time I just wonder what the avg age of the Pontiac racer is?

[cosgrove]

Originally Posted by S/st 54

I just wonder what the avg age of the Pontiac racer is?

Let's not even talk about that.

[LiL Jack]

I just turned 42. But still think I'm 21.

[opeliac]

If it isnt able to use some of the original Pontiac parts, then is it really a Pontiac?

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by opeliac

If it isnt able to use some of the original Pontiac parts, then is it really a Pontiac?

As long as some of the parts, withing reason its still a Pontiac. People who think it ALL has to be the same as original, need to GET OUT of the race section.

That kind of thinking holds us back.

The huge BBC and BBF stuff is "based" on the originals, good enough.

[chiefbigb]

Maybe the question should be what's the average age of the people making the blocks/heads we have currently? They have to retire at some point as well. What's the cost to return ratio on design and production of a larger bore spacing block. They know and more than likely it's a bad investment. If you wanted I'm sure in today's market you could have a billet block made to your specs and have the bore spacing of your dreams. If all it takes is to bolt on some external parts to be considered a Pontiac engine I can come up with some adapters and make this happen much cheaper. For the most part as a group we understand the limitations of the design we are working with and can respect the time and effort it takes to make one run fast. I doubt you get that in the Chevrolet world.

[GTO Dan]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

I just turned 42. But still think I'm 21.

I'm about to turn 55 and my mother says I act like I'm 12.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by GTO Dan

I'm about to turn 55 and my mother says I act like I'm 12.

Keep up the good work!

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

As long as some of the parts, withing reason its still a Pontiac. People who think it ALL has to be the same as original, need to GET OUT of the race section.

That kind of thinking holds us back.

The huge BBC and BBF stuff is "based" on the originals, good enough.

This coming from a guy who has never had a set of aluminum heads in his car? Btw, I'm not taking a shot at you, just pointing out most Pontiac racers won't spend the needed money to go to a high level. Some have complained if a standard Pontiac valve cover won't fit, it's not a true Pontiac. Spreading the bore space to gain a few more cubic inches still won't put Pontiacs in the same league as other brands. Everything on an engine like that will be a custom piece. Go read Langers response again to the issues Pontiac has to compete with other brands.

NHRA SS/AM runs at 8.50 lbs per CI. Assuming Langers engine is 565ci would put him at 4800lbs. I believe the record is around 7.95. Need I say more?

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by chiefbigb

Maybe the question should be what's the average age of the people making the blocks/heads we have currently? They have to retire at some point as well. What's the cost to return ratio on design and production of a larger bore spacing block. They know and more than likely it's a bad investment. If you wanted I'm sure in today's market you could have a billet block made to your specs and have the bore spacing of your dreams. If all it takes is to bolt on some external parts to be considered a Pontiac engine I can come up with some adapters and make this happen much cheaper. For the most part as a group we understand the limitations of the design we are working with and can respect the time and effort it takes to make one run fast. I doubt you get that in the Chevrolet world.

If it was just the block it would be one thing. But what about heads? Sheet metal Intake manifold and header should not real be much different in cost no matter what the bore spacing. So what bore spacing should be used? One that someone else has already done for a different engine family. This will mean that there should be CNC programs to machine crankshafts and raw camshafts billets, maybe oil pans etc.

Stan

PS Nice to meet and talk with you at Capital last week.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

This coming from a guy who has never had a set of aluminum heads in his car? Btw, I'm not taking a shot at you, just pointing out most Pontiac racers won't spend the needed money to go to a high level. Some have complained if a standard Pontiac valve cover won't fit, it's not a true Pontiac. Spreading the bore space to gain a few more cubic inches still won't put Pontiacs in the same league as other brands. Everything on an engine like that will be a custom piece. Go read Langers response again to the issues Pontiac has to compete with other brands.

NHRA SS/AM runs at 8.50 lbs per CI. Assuming Langers engine is 565ci would put him at 4800lbs. I believe the record is around 7.95. Need I say more?

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

Calvin,
SS/AM is a different animal than what Jason was talking about needing more cis for. What is the deck height on the short block you have / had? How low could it be milled? Would it take a small main (2.5" or less) journal crank?

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

This coming from a guy who has never had a set of aluminum heads in his car? Btw, I'm not taking a shot at you, just pointing out most Pontiac racers won't spend the needed money to go to a high level. Some have complained if a standard Pontiac valve cover won't fit, it's not a true Pontiac. Spreading the bore space to gain a few more cubic inches still won't put Pontiacs in the same league as other brands. Everything on an engine like that will be a custom piece. Go read Langers response again to the issues Pontiac has to compete with other brands.

NHRA SS/AM runs at 8.50 lbs per CI. Assuming Langers engine is 565ci would put him at 4800lbs. I believe the record is around 7.95. Need I say more?

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

Imo once you start going that route with all that custom stuff just buy what's already out there and put Pontiac on the valve cover.
99.9% of Pontiac guys are way to cheap to even utilize what we currently have to it's full extent.