[NeighborsComplaint]

It's a hobby. not an investment. You have to think of it like building a bookshelf. You get all done building it from the finest oak with a hand rubbed oil finish but when it comes time to get rid of it, the next guy says "I can go to Ikea and buy a bookshelf for $100."

You are probably going to drop $50K on this car of yours and you will be lucky to get half that back if you were to sell it. With a GTO, your % of return will be higher but you'll still take a beating. The other thing is that you're building it for you. The next guy that comes along may not care for your spin on your own car. The reality is it's just a very expensive hobby and don't think of it as an investment. You build what and how you can afford to build.

The best way is to buy a finished car and let the builder take the beating. If you are a hobbyist like me, I can wrench but I am not a body man or painter. I bought my GTO a long time ago but the principle is the same ... I found a car that was nice looking with a blown motor that the owner had given up on after a succession of spun rod bearings. After an initial shoestring rebuild, I drove the car for many years as-purchased (just replaced carpets and did some rattle can detailing under the hood). While I eventually freshened up the paint with a $900 Maaco respary (it was painted around 1985 and I bought it in 1989) I got many years of use out of the car, driving it and attending local shows and cruise nights over the years as I made incremental improvements to the body and interior.

I feel like I have spent a butt-load of money on the car in the past 5 years. In total I probably have around $25K in the car including the Initial shoe-string motor rebuild , a second proper rebuild incl new heads (both motors assembled and installed by me), the $900 respray. a second $5000 paint job (body stripped to bare metal/vinyl top left on) about 5 years ago, all new interior (seats recovered, new door panels, new steering wheel, new console, new dash panel) trans and diff rebuild, torque convertor rebuild and re-stall, new suspension w. tubular control arms F&R, springs, gas shocks and HD sway bars, front end rebuild, new custom driveshaft (car had a long tail TH400 in it and a bent driveshaft) aluminum radiator, water pump, shroud and clutch fan, alternator, Grand Cherokee steering box conversion, high torque starter, ceramic headers, new gas tank and lines, new exhaust, 4 wheel disc conversion with master and booster and wheels and tires. I did all the mechanical work myself with the exception of the trans, diff and convertor rebuilds (did the R&R) and the exhaust (I am older but smarter and know they never fit). Most recently, I put it in the paint shop to repair a rusted rear-window filler panel, repaint both rear quarters (flaws in the prior paint/metal work) and install a new vinyl top. I am guessing around $2,500 for this latest adventure.

You can't look at these cars as a substitute for an IRA unless you happened to have stumbled on an SD, RA-IV or HO at the right time and the right place.

[64speed]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

It's a hobby. not an investment. You have to think of it like building a bookshelf. You get all done building it from the finest oak with a hand rubbed oil finish but when it comes time to get rid of it, the next guy says "I can go to Ikea and buy a bookshelf for $100."

You are probably going to drop $50K on this car of yours and you will be lucky to get half that back if you were to sell it. With a GTO, your % of return will be higher but you'll still take a beating. The other thing is that you're building it for you. The next guy that comes along may not care for your spin on your own car. The reality is it's just a very expensive hobby and don't think of it as an investment. You build what and how you can afford to build.

The best way is to buy a finished car and let the builder take the beating. If you are a hobbyist like me, I can wrench but I am not a body man or painter. I bought my GTO a long time ago but the principle is the same ... I found a car that was nice looking with a blown motor that the owner had given up on after a succession of spun rod bearings. After an initial shoestring rebuild, I drove the car for many years as-purchased (just replaced carpets and did some rattle can detailing under the hood). While I eventually freshened up the paint with a $900 Maaco respary (it was painted around 1985 and I bought it in 1989) I got many years of use out of the car, driving it and attending local shows and cruise nights over the years as I made incremental improvements to the body and interior.

I feel like I have spent a butt-load of money on the car in the past 5 years. In total I probably have around $25K in the car including the Initial shoe-string motor rebuild , a second proper rebuild incl new heads (both motors assembled and installed by me), the $900 respray. a second $5000 paint job (body stripped to bare metal/vinyl top left on) about 5 years ago, all new interior (seats recovered, new door panels, new steering wheel, new console, new dash panel) trans and diff rebuild, torque convertor rebuild and re-stall, new suspension w. tubular control arms F&R, springs, gas shocks and HD sway bars, front end rebuild, new custom driveshaft (car had a long tail TH400 in it and a bent driveshaft) aluminum radiator, water pump, shroud and clutch fan, alternator, Grand Cherokee steering box conversion, high torque starter, ceramic headers, new gas tank and lines, new exhaust, 4 wheel disc conversion with master and booster and wheels and tires. I did all the mechanical work myself with the exception of the trans, diff and convertor rebuilds (did the R&R) and the exhaust (I am older but smarter and know they never fit). Most recently, I put it in the paint shop to repair a rusted rear-window filler panel, repaint both rear quarters (flaws in the prior paint/metal work) and install a new vinyl top. I am guessing around $2,500 for this latest adventure.

You can't look at these cars as a substitute for an IRA unless you happened to have stumbled on an SD, RA-IV or HO at the right time and the right place.

I think neighborscomplaint gets me most of all. Although his description of my car is a little flattering it is true that I am spending a ton in bodywork and paint and chrome. Rome wasn’t built in a day. This is a 3 year minimum project with more like 4 or 5 (hell maybe 6 who knows) years invested. It won’t be pro touring though it will have some tubular suspension and bigger wheels and tires. It won’t be a drag car but it’s gonna have a hell of a 467 in it. I went on power tour as a long hauler a while back and while the Foose cars get people’s attention for a while the cars people keep coming back over too are the ones that are just simply well done. Nothing over the top. No fastback roofline conversion or 1500 hp motor that you end up seeing the GM motor medics under on the side of the road but the cars that are just well done. No detail neglected so to speak. The first time I saw a original radio converted to Bluetooth was in a 60s caddy. Chrome was a little pitted but this guy was jamming out on his iPod with a caddy radio. I decided then my next car would have that! It’s the little things to me that make the car like the tach in the dash instead of hose clamped to the column. A manual to automatic conversion that doesn’t leave a dead pedal and a big honking shifter on the floor. You know detail! I know it costs but that’s what I’m shooting for and I’m doing it in a tempest that had a zero dollar initial investment. That would have never happened to a GTO in any condition. I was a police officer and I can say unequivocally that it’s cheaper to have a drug habit than a car habit. The only difference is you might end up with something to show for one and if you lose your house it will be for different reasons LOL. I never meant to imply that I was retiring off this car I was merely stating I get my balls busted for doing a tempest and I don’t think it matters. If my vision comes true it’ll be my car you see on the side page of the hot rod power tour issue with the a$$ end hung out.

[HWYSTR455]

Don't get hung up on recognition, the 'trade rags' are like F*Xnews, fake, twisted by manufacturers and lean towards the big 3. The majority of the BOP and AMX musclecars only get coverage in the off-shoot mags, ones that are supported by groups that specifically cater to those (dead) brands. Sad but true. The ones that do get coverage are the ones that are given an LS, late hemi, or late 5.0 swap.

If I see another 69 Camaro on the cover of a mag I will puke. No imagination.

I bought the LeMans to use as a driver, and built it originally to tow a boat. I didn't buy the boat, but used it as a driver for almost 20 years. I kept the outside as best I could, and just did the suspension, drivetrain, and minor interior stuff. This is engine #9 I think in it now, and I usually get around 100k+ miles out of each. Being a LeMans, it didn't matter, or at least until the spike in values hit. But I still don't care what folks think, I do what I want with it.

I've argued with folks that what I have in the car compared to the use I've gotten out of it makes it very inexpensive transportation, and I've had tons of enjoyment out of it at the same time. It's less expensive than buying even an econo type new car, once you add up tax, maintenance, etc.

It's hard to put a number (of money spent) on the car, because along the way, doing partial restos, it's basically a new (er) car when done, so it's tough to determine how much a particular stage cost. But I know I can get more for it than a newer car with 150k miles on it, not to mention it has like a million plus on it.

If I would have buckled every time someone said I was spending too much on something that wasn't X, or Y, I would have given up long ago, and missed out on all the enjoyment I had along the way.

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