[Formulajones]

If you guys do any decent amount of towing at all these small engines don't cut the mustard in my opinion. Mike and I were just talking about this.

I started out with a 77 pickup and a 350. Lived in Ohio, mild hills. But even towing a flat bed car trailer 3-4 times I knew it just wasn't getting it done and I knew there were better options.

After a year I bought a 79 454 1 -ton. Worlds better. My father at the time was buying new 3/4 tons with 6.0 LS engines. They did fine but when we would tow our flat beds together, any slight grade and my 454 would run away from him. Towed for 20 years with that truck, even moved the family out here to Arizona with it pulling my 28 foot enclosed trailer.

Then things changed. AZ, NM and CA is mountainous terrain where it goes from sea level to over 7,000 ft in just a few miles. Talk about some grades to climb, even these small cars today have a problem with them. My 454 did it but it was working it pretty hard. Flat beds weren't a problem but it worked really hard with the 28 foot loaded to about 10,000 lbs.

So I bought a Duramax. Now it pulls that same trailer up the mountains and passing cars while I'm doing it. No comparison.

Even if you guys tow 3-4 times a year, you're better off with a better truck and bigger engine. There are so many decent trucks to choose from with price ranges that suite anybody, I can't see wanting a 350 truck, Chevy or Pontiac, for any kind of a tow rig. I especially can't comprehend or condone going through a ton of work shoving a Pontiac 350 in an 84 pickup to make a tow rig out of it, after all the work, it's still a 350. If dead set on Pontiacs I would at least be looking at a 455 minimum so that I felt like I improved and accomplished something. But frankly there is no reason a chevy can't get the job done and do it reliably, Just as Cliff said. I've towed with them for decades.
If you want cool factor and nostalgia, a better option would be to build an old cab over and shove a Pontiac in that instead. Even an old ramp truck would be Nostalgia. Now THAT'S cool

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

If you guys do any decent amount of towing at all these small engines don't cut the mustard in my opinion. Mike and I were just talking about this.

I started out with a 77 pickup and a 350. Lived in Ohio, mild hills. But even towing a flat bed car trailer 3-4 times I knew it just wasn't getting it done and I knew there were better options.

After a year I bought a 79 454 1 -ton. Worlds better. My father at the time was buying new 3/4 tons with 6.0 LS engines. They did fine but when we would tow our flat beds together, any slight grade and my 454 would run away from him. Towed for 20 years with that truck, even moved the family out here to Arizona with it pulling my 28 foot enclosed trailer.

Then things changed. AZ, NM and CA is mountainous terrain where it goes from sea level to over 7,000 ft in just a few miles. Talk about some grades to climb, even these small cars today have a problem with them. My 454 did it but it was working it pretty hard. Flat beds weren't a problem but it worked really hard with the 28 foot loaded to about 10,000 lbs.

So I bought a Duramax. Now it pulls that same trailer up the mountains and passing cars while I'm doing it. No comparison.

Even if you guys tow 3-4 times a year, you're better off with a better truck and bigger engine. There are so many decent trucks to choose from with price ranges that suite anybody, I can't see wanting a 350 truck, Chevy or Pontiac, for any kind of a tow rig. I especially can't comprehend or condone going through a ton of work shoving a Pontiac 350 in an 84 pickup to make a tow rig out of it, after all the work, it's still a 350. If dead set on Pontiacs I would at least be looking at a 455 minimum so that I felt like I improved and accomplished something. But frankly there is no reason a chevy can't get the job done and do it reliably, Just as Cliff said. I've towed with them for decades.
If you want cool factor and nostalgia, a better option would be to build an old cab over and shove a Pontiac in that instead. Even an old ramp truck would be Nostalgia. Now THAT'S cool

Well said! Mom’s ‘80 Suburban had a 350 and a TH350C. It didn’t last one trip towing her 5,800 lbs travel trailer before the check valve in the torque converter lock the transmission in 3rd gear, burning up the third gear clutch packs. The 350 was the 175hp version. It ate the camshaft ( flippin’ GM cost cutting....inadequate hardening of the lobes) within 15,000 of her purchase. After this, I deduced that smaller, short stroke engines weren’t up to towing. When I get around to building the LS based engine for my ‘03 Silverado, it will be based on a 4” stroke crank. I think a 382 ought to work nicely.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Well said! Mom’s ‘80 Suburban had a 350 and a TH350C. It didn’t last one trip towing her 5,800 lbs travel trailer before the check valve in the torque converter lock the transmission in 3rd gear, burning up the third gear clutch packs. The 350 was the 175hp version. It ate the camshaft ( flippin’ GM cost cutting....inadequate hardening of the lobes) within 15,000 of her purchase. After this, I deduced that smaller, short stroke engines weren’t up to towing. When I get around to building the LS based engine for my ‘03 Silverado, it will be based on a 4” stroke crank. I think a 382 ought to work nicely.

Yep, that will make a very nice tow engine with a broad power band, and they have excellent cylinder heads. I fooled with the larger bore 6.0's for quite a while. A 4" crank 402/408 combo makes fantastic power for it's size.

[p4msi1]

OK, y'all have talked me into selling my old trucks and Pontiac motors and buying a newer model Chevy truck. I appreciate the level headed advise and wise experience. The free advise and endless knowledge is overwhelming, I am truly humbled,

Blessings

Steve

[Formulajones]

See, isn't this forum great?? We all come together to help guide people in the right direction

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by p4msi1

OK, y'all have talked me into selling my old trucks and Pontiac motors and buying a newer model Chevy truck. I appreciate the level headed advise and wise experience. The free advise and endless knowledge is overwhelming, I am truly humbled,

Blessings

Steve

I for one hope this is a joke. I was ready for the 350+HP, torque monster from hell engine build. That was "REAL LIFE" pump gas friendly and would pull off 15 mpg or better while totin' a load. An engine that didn't need 5 or 6 gears to get moving and run down the road. And wouldn't have to down shift three times when you hit a hill.

Had done been looking for a clear cylinder for smoke flow testing to see what kind of head intake port mods could be done to get port velocity off the scale while using an Offy dual-port intake. A real axle twisting 455 that didn't need a big stall converter to get it moving. And sit and purr like a kitten at idle.
Clay

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

I for one hope this is a joke. I was ready for the 350+HP, torque monster from hell engine build. That was "REAL LIFE" pump gas friendly and would pull off 15 mpg or better while totin' a load. An engine that didn't need 5 or 6 gears to get moving and run down the road. And wouldn't have to down shift three times when you hit a hill.

You'll need a bigger engine than a 350 to pull that off. And yes I'm sure he's joking, hence why I was joking with my comment.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by p4msi1

Next, I have 4 - 455's, 2 - 400's, 1 - 301, 3 - 350's. and maybe another 428 and 455 on the way.

Originally Posted by Formulajones

You'll need a bigger engine than a 350 to pull that off. And yes I'm sure he's joking, hence why I was joking with my comment.

Appears he has that part covered.

Clay

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Yep, that will make a very nice tow engine with a broad power band, and they have excellent cylinder heads. I fooled with the larger bore 6.0's for quite a while. A 4" crank 402/408 combo makes fantastic power for it's size.

I’ve found a few 6.0s that the owners didn’t want an arm and a leg for, but I’m leaning toward a 5.3 block bore to LS1 specs (3.905” bore) with the 4” stroke crank/6.125” Molnar rods. Ported 317 heads milled to 71cc chambers will top it off.