[Squidward]

I finally got the tank installed on my 67 Firebird. I did a 600hp FiTech install.

I am running the in-tank Hyperfuel pump (255), out to a Tanks, Inc. EFI return style regulator via some bent/flared hard tubing and Parker Push-Lok hose and AN6 fittings. The regulator return goes back to the return line connection on the pump body. The regulator outlet feeds to the factory 3/8 fuel line that has been plumbed for AN6 fittings.

Pump: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hpf-40015/overview/
Regulator: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tnk-afpr1

Yay! None of it leaks!

But here is my problem...

I get no fuel pressure on the regulator gauge. I've adjusted the screw to about as much as it should go, but no love. Pump pwm has been increased to max (full flow), but still no pressure. The car will start and run for a second or two after the key-on priming, but dies immediately.

1. I tried pinching off the return hose to see if my regulator was bad. Still no pressure, no run.

2. I am thinking about bypassing the regulator and dead-heading my pump briefly to see if the car runs. The throttle body has a built in regulator on board.

3. I also thought about plumbing the return outlet on the throttle body (currently capped, return line comes off the regulator) to a catch can/bottle just for test purposes. By doing this I could avoid dead heading the pump.

4. Next step after this would be dropping the tank, pulling the pump, and sinking the pump into a bucket of gas to see what happens. Possible leak at the discharge of the pump to the pump assembly body?

Any other suggestions would be welcome. I'm sure some of you guys know some tricks of the trade in troubleshooting pumps/regulators.

I'm starting to think that using an LS filter/regulator kit as previously suggested in my other thread might have been a better solution. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cmb-03-0263

[Scott65]

I don't see any specific instructions in that link to your regulator, but on mine (FAST and not necessarily designed the same), the supply from the pump feeds the throttle body, exits the throttle body to the regulator in, then out the return to the tank. Just something to look at, and not necessarily your particular issue. Good luck getting it sorted out.

[Lee]

Ditto on what Scott said. From your regulator link above, there is a link to installation diagrams. The 4th diagram is how I've plumbed (successfully!) several EFI systems: https://static.summitracing.com/glob.../tnk-afpr1.pdf

SIDE NOTE: Scott has been running aftermarket EFI (FAST EZ) for longer than anyone else that I know. Scott, not sure if you heard, but FAST now offers an ECU upgrade, a Sportsman-type with a bunch more tuning options.

[johnta1]

How is your setup plumbed?
(digram?)

Is there fuel returning to tank?

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Do you have any pressure on gauge when it primes/starts, or ever?

A diagram would be very helpful indeed.

[Scott65]

It "sounds" like he's using it as I would normally think of using one to operate a carb on a fuel injection pump. A diagram would help indeed.

[455TA]

Here is what I did:
I have Fitech as well. I run from the pump, straight to the throttle body, and instead of using the built in return, I have it plugged, and I return from another inlet on the throttle body. The fuel goes through the Ftech, out of the inlet on the back, into an Aeromotive regulator, and then returns to the tank. The gauge is setup on the regulator and I have it set to 58 psi since I'm using the 1200PA system. I tried running to the regulator first and then out to the Fitech but I had low pressure issues. It has to be ran through the Fitech first and then returned.

[HWYSTR455]

Do you have a separate pump controller, or are you using the controller built into the FiTech?

My understanding is the pumps sold my TanksInc, the Walbros, are not compatible with the FiTech pump output. I would guess the Summit pump is no different. I suggested running a relay, and go to a switched 12v source, especially during troubleshooting. I personally would leave it that way.

Make sure your feed line is in fact plumbed to the pump output fitting, and you don't have them swapped. Make sure you have a good tank vent too. You may want to disconnect all lines connected to the factory lines and blow them out with compressed air. They can rot internally and flake. Also remove the regulator and make sure it's not blocked from debris.

Screw that gauge, they never work right. Enable logging, and take a reading from key on, crank, that few sec sputter, and review it. Or hook up an external gauge.

I helped a member here with the same issue with an FiTech, he even sent it back several times, and never got the fuel feed worked out. He bailed and went back to a carb. So you are not alone. His was a little different, it would start, and run for a short period, and then PSI would start dropping off on 'load' runs.

Google it, low psi with FiTech, you will see it's not an isolated incident.

.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by 455TA

Here is what I did:
I have Fitech as well. I run from the pump, straight to the throttle body, and instead of using the built in return, I have it plugged, and I return from another inlet on the throttle body. The fuel goes through the Ftech, out of the inlet on the back, into an Aeromotive regulator, and then returns to the tank. The gauge is setup on the regulator and I have it set to 58 psi since I'm using the 1200PA system. I tried running to the regulator first and then out to the Fitech but I had low pressure issues. It has to be ran through the Fitech first and then returned.

That would eliminate any potential issues with the internal regulator, and a great idea. What type of low PSI issues were you seeing?

Guy I was helping spent hours and hours on the phone with support, they went over the throttle body twice and sent it back. He lost patience and just went back to the carb. Tech just kept pointing to his fuel system, but it appeared to be all in order. But tech did say that you can't use the pump output for walbro and some other in tank pumps. It is in the docs.

.

[Squidward]

Here is a diagram. My system is plumbed like a combo of diagram 1 and 2 in the Tanks, Inc instructions.

The ECU powers on the pump for 3-4 seconds with key on prior to cranking, and can be heard running for a few seconds after the engine dies. So electrically it is behaving as expected. I have adequate gas - 6-7 gallons. The tank also has a 3/8 vent line that is functional.

When the pump is running, I hear a fountain of fuel recirculating in the tank.

I have some spare fuel line. I suppose I could disconnect the pump supply to the reg, and let it blast into a gas can to see if the pump is cutting the mustard.

Due to work schedule, I get to troubleshoot this on the keyboard until Saturday afternoon.

[455TA]

Originally Posted by Squidward

Here is a diagram. My system is plumbed like a combo of diagram 1 and 2 in the Tanks, Inc instructions.

The ECU powers on the pump for 3-4 seconds with key on prior to cranking, and can be heard running for a few seconds after the engine dies. So electrically it is behaving as expected. I have adequate gas - 6-7 gallons. The tank also has a 3/8 vent line that is functional.

When the pump is running, I hear a fountain of fuel recirculating in the tank.

I have some spare fuel line. I suppose I could disconnect the pump supply to the reg, and let it blast into a gas can to see if the pump is cutting the mustard.

Due to work schedule, I get to troubleshoot this on the keyboard until Saturday afternoon.

I believe you should try the way I mentioned. It makes sure the Fitech sees full pressure before returning anything to the tank.

[455TA]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

That would eliminate any potential issues with the internal regulator, and a great idea. What type of low PSI issues were you seeing?

Guy I was helping spent hours and hours on the phone with support, they went over the throttle body twice and sent it back. He lost patience and just went back to the carb. Tech just kept pointing to his fuel system, but it appeared to be all in order. But tech did say that you can't use the pump output for walbro and some other in tank pumps. It is in the docs.

.

Mine would not go above 40 psi, and it needs 58 psi. I was told to try this fuel routing from a member in the Fitech Owners page on facebook. It makes sure to get full flow to the FiTech and bypasses the built in junk regulator all together. I'm running a 380 lph pump so I have it wired in with a relay and set to 100% pwm. Using -8AN Feed line and -6AN return, push lock style hoses. I have pre and post cleanable filters. I wanted a fuel system that will handle more power later on.

[Scott65]

I believe 455TA is giving you sound advice, and would follow it, as it is sound in general theory, AND is brand specific to what you're using. Good luck getting it going.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by 455TA

Mine would not go above 40 psi, and it needs 58 psi. I was told to try this fuel routing from a member in the Fitech Owners page on facebook. It makes sure to get full flow to the FiTech and bypasses the built in junk regulator all together. I'm running a 380 lph pump so I have it wired in with a relay and set to 100% pwm. Using -8AN Feed line and -6AN return, push lock style hoses. I have pre and post cleanable filters. I wanted a fuel system that will handle more power later on.

Very good, I'm liking the approach. Yes, bypass internal, and with the relay, you basically bypass the internal PWM too. That could pulse and even have voltage drop below 12 and still apply full power to the pump. Makes total sense.

.

[JLMounce]

I've been running my FiTech with a Walbro 255 for 3 seasons now. Very early model 30001 600 non PA. No issues.

Hooking it up dead head without the regulator for testing purposes should be okay. It'll tell you if the regulator you have is bad, which is what I'm leaning towards. This way shouldn't present a problem for the FiTech unless you're bypassing more fuel through the return and starving the head unit.

It's not as nice of an install because you have more fuel lines to worry about, but I use this setup in mine as well as my wife's 71 Chevelle that we just put a 30003 on.

http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/pa...rod/prd548.htm

It just flat works. Yes it's soft line and I'm sure that some will have issue with that, but as long as it's inspected regularly and replaced as necessary, there shouldn't be issue there.

[77 TRASHCAN]

The plumbing of your regulator must be putting your supply fuel to your F/I unit on the low pressure side (return side). An air hose blowing into your gauge would tell if it's bad.

Of course I am just stating what others have already...

[adynes]

I don't know how the Fitech works, but my Megasquirt only powers the pump for 2 seconds to prime the system when the key is turned on, and doesn't power the pump again until it sees a tach signal when cranking the engine. If you are keying the car on and then crawling underneath to look at the regulator/gauge, the pump might not actually be running. I would jump full 12v to the pump from the battery while troubleshooting and getting the regulator set.

Ideally, the regulator will hold pressure after priming, but if there is even the smallest leakage across the ball and seat (or across the injectors, or the pumps internal check valve), it will bleed down in short order. A very small leakage is not a problem while the pump is running though as it can be an insignificantly small percentage of full pump flow.

As to the car only sputtering when trying to start it, you might need to bleed the air out of the fuel line since you have it set up deadhead style. Or just crank it more and let it self bleed, but that might take a while.

[Jack P.]

I to studied this before going LS regulator, but I'm not done yet. Everything everyone has said is good info. plus I would like to add one thing that may not help but should be done. Cut the PWM wire close to the TB, not real close but then with good connectors or solder, run a larger wire to the pump. I am running a #8 for my 255lph from front to back. Voltage drop can be a real problem in low voltage systems like cars. The Fitech pumps are the only one's I have found that can use the PWM, others can not. There is a lock out in your set up.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by Jack P.

I to studied this before going LS regulator, but I'm not done yet. Everything everyone has said is good info. plus I would like to add one thing that may not help but should be done. Cut the PWM wire close to the TB, not real close but then with good connectors or solder, run a larger wire to the pump. I am running a #8 for my 255lph from front to back. Voltage drop can be a real problem in low voltage systems like cars. The Fitech pumps are the only one's I have found that can use the PWM, others can not. There is a lock out in your set up.

FAST offers a pump that works with PWM. It is expensive, but it also is rated at over 1,000hp on gasoline.

TanksInc makes a note that their 190 and 255lph pumps (Walbro) will NOT work with PWM control - not sure about that Hyperfuel pump.

Links from TanksInc:
About not using those pumps with PWM, 6th "NOTE" down:
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/pa...prod/prd84.htm

When used with FITech: http://www.tanksinc.com/pdf/SettingF...Tech_-_Web.pdf

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by adynes

I don't know how the Fitech works, but my Megasquirt only powers the pump for 2 seconds to prime the system when the key is turned on, and doesn't power the pump again until it sees a tach signal when cranking the engine. If you are keying the car on and then crawling underneath to look at the regulator/gauge, the pump might not actually be running. I would jump full 12v to the pump from the battery while troubleshooting and getting the regulator set.

Ideally, the regulator will hold pressure after priming, but if there is even the smallest leakage across the ball and seat (or across the injectors, or the pumps internal check valve), it will bleed down in short order. A very small leakage is not a problem while the pump is running though as it can be an insignificantly small percentage of full pump flow.

As to the car only sputtering when trying to start it, you might need to bleed the air out of the fuel line since you have it set up deadhead style. Or just crank it more and let it self bleed, but that might take a while.

The FiTech does function like this. It is only sending fuel if it sees rpm at 200 or better. The factory style starter in my 455 won't turn the engine that fast, so what you end up doing is priming the system, it fires off, then fuel starts flowing.

I believe in the pro tuning software you can adjust that parameter, but I have not as it's never been a problem for me.