[dataway]

Originally Posted by skullbucket

Shouldn't take a $100000 to restore a $2800 car.

But they are not $2,800 cars. In today's money they are at least $28,000 cars. That's like saying gas should cost 18 cents today. ... well, it should, but it doesn't.

No such thing as a worry free 50 year old car. Little fender bender at the door hinge, or the door post area and you may need thousands to find the parts and repair it. If it's a $2,800 car ... might as well junk it and start over ... but you know that's not going to happen, you're going to fix it.

In the picture above, original dog dishes ... probably $50 each, original rims $100 each, probably bias ply tires $200 each, straight sheet metal and trim ... maybe thousands, perfect glass, excellent bumpers. Minor accident on one of those cars and you are probably talking twice to three times the cost of the original car to fix it .... going to junk it? No. You are going to fix it, so it's not worry free.


A worry free car is a 1995 Honda Civic. But I don't see people here lining up to drive one.

[Judge273]

I'm confused as to what Pontiac are bringing 100k plus?

It's a relatively small sector imho...

There are some way overpriced Pontiacs today that won't be worth anything close to purchase price...

So, why not enjoy your own car and not worry about others?

[skullbucket]

Originally Posted by dataway

But they are not $2,800 cars. In today's money they are at least $28,000 cars. That's like saying gas should cost 18 cents today. ... well, it should, but it doesn't.

I could restore my Grand Prix for less than $20000 and it would be perfect and worth $10000, thats stupid.
Im not paying someone $175 an hour to strip and spray the panel near the door hinges by the cowl panel.
There is no need for 100k cars.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by skullbucket

Im not paying someone $175 an hour to strip and spray the panel near the door hinges by the cowl panel.

Holy cow, body shops must be expensive in your area.

The original poster didn't say anything about $100k Pontiacs, he may have been talking about restored cars in general. Even so, I'll stick to what I said earlier - it doesn't matter to me how other people spend their money. If it makes them happy that's great.

If someone has a car that cost a ton to restore and then they try to make back their money when they try to sell it, if they can find a buyer who's willing to pay that's fine too. Otherwise, they'll either have to keep it or sell it at a loss. That's one of the main reasons behind buying a car that's already been done up, since it's generally less expensive than paying for the restoration yourself.

If you think about it, the old car hobby has to be one of the few where people worry about trying to get their money back...other people golf, or go skiing, or travel or whatever, and there's no way to make a profit on those activities.

[bird72]

Originally Posted by Stuart

If you think about it, the old car hobby has to be one of the few where people worry about trying to get their money back...other people golf, or go skiing, or travel or whatever, and there's no way to make a profit on those activities.

Nail on head, exactly. I know avid hunters, fishermen, snowmobilers and such. Outdoorsman stuff. They never talk about what they spend, but love what they do. It dawned on me they spend a lot. Like car stuff, none of that stuff is cheap. Gear costs. Outings cost. Old cars should be looked at as use of disposable income. Even if resto cars turn a profit, it is peanuts per hours spent.

Regarding OP topic, I think it is great nut and bolt restos get done. Examples of history. My only gripe on "Over The Top" is incorrect by way of Too Nice. Over crayoned. Over shiny underside. Over perfection. I remember them new and they were nice underside and hood, but not dazzling and radiant looking. And since they didn't have clear coat magic, they had surface corrosion on non painted underside parts already. Has a resto ever been done with correct corrosion from the air? What is bad is concours judging is actually judging a New Reality. Old one is gone. Awards seem to be for super done perfection. Even survivor judging is getting weird. How do 40K survivor cars have extreme perfect engine paint? Rant over.

[Slider]

Originally Posted by bird72

How do 40K survivor cars have extreme perfect engine paint? Rant over.

I think the same thing. This is what the engine looks like for a 53 year old survivor car with 36K miles on it that spent its whole life in a heated garage. Yup.....my dad changed the battery, hoses and belts on it as some point. Why?? Because it was a daily and then weekend driver to him in the 70's. Yup the engine has some rust on it. Yup it has the typical corrosion by the front timing cover.

So when it goes back on the road hopefully soon its getting new Gates belts, new heater hoses and fresh plugs and wires. I could give a crap less that it has the correct date coded wires, hoses and belts. I want the damn thing driveable and enjoyable. If I die in 10 years I hope my kid has the passion or sentimental value to keep his dad's (and originally his grandfather's) car and enjoy it. If they want to sell it the next guy can restore to 100% original. The 55 year old parts will be in the attic if someone wants them that bad.

[FULZGOLD]

Originally Posted by Slider

I think the same thing. This is what the engine looks like for a 53 year old survivor car with 36K miles on it that spent its whole life in a heated garage. Yup.....my dad changed the battery, hoses and belts on it as some point. Why?? Because it was a daily and then weekend driver to him in the 70's. Yup the engine has some rust on it. Yup it has the typical corrosion by the front timing cover.

So when it goes back on the road hopefully soon its getting new Gates belts, new heater hoses and fresh plugs and wires. I could give a crap less that it has the correct date coded wires, hoses and belts. I want the damn thing driveable and enjoyable. If I die in 10 years I hope my kid has the passion or sentimental value to keep his dad's (and originally his grandfather's) car and enjoy it. If they want to sell it the next guy can restore to 100% original. The 55 year old parts will be in the attic if someone wants them that bad.

Exactly.
Here is my 78 which has never had the engine out. just a couple replacement parts here and there.

[skullbucket]

Originally Posted by Stuart

Holy cow, body shops must be expensive in your area.

The original poster didn't say anything about $100k Pontiacs, he may have been talking about restored cars in general. Even so, I'll stick to what I said earlier - it doesn't matter to me how other people spend their money. If it makes them happy that's great.

1: to reach $100000 on a restoration it would take stupid prices to reach that amount.
2: Since this is a Pontiac site one would think we are talking Pontiacs.
3: you should be worried about how much money someone pays for a restoration because if they will pay it that makes what work you want more expensive.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by skullbucket

1: to reach $100000 on a restoration it would take stupid prices to reach that amount.
2: Since this is a Pontiac site one would think we are talking Pontiacs.
3: you should be worried about how much money someone pays for a restoration because if they will pay it that makes what work you want more expensive.

Not so much the hourly rate, but the amount of hours - depending on the car and the amount of work required, 1000 hours of labor or even more isn't necessarily out of the question. Multiply that by the shop's hourly rate (say for example $75/hour) and you're at $75,000, and that doesn't include any materials or parts.

However, I don't think that someone else paying for a restoration of that magnitude has much for me to worry about. If I were to go through another resto project (I've done a few, but don't know that I'll ever take on another one), it's going to cost whatever it's going to cost...the labor rate will be the same, it just comes down to the condition of my car and how much work I want done to it.