[The Boss]

The one he sold here at BJ in CT I think went for $140k.

....but the II's are a different animal all together.

[Greg Reid]

That's actually better than I thought it did but yes...RAII is an entirely different animal indeed. I was just wondering since his RAI was brought up and the value of $100K was mentioned.

[HO Kenny]

69 GTOs are more desirable than 68s. To me they are the same body style but not to a lot of others.
68 firebirds are more desirable than 69s, other than trans ams. They are not the same body style at all. Plus, the 68 is lighter. I'm going to say the 68 RA ii firebird is most likely the quickest pontiac of the muscle car era even though the RA iv had more power. Look up Jim Mino.
On the ram air issue. The 69 RA iii is just a ho with fresh air. I think in the firebird it's even the same engine code. The 68 RA I is not a ho with fresh air. Different heads, different cam for the 4 speed. But, the RA iii is more desirable.

I'll have my work cut out for me in order to get it for the price I'm comfortable with. Don't think I'm going to test drive it this weekend. We have a snow warning!
Where's that global warming they promised?

[68bird400HO]

What is the difference between the 16 heads and the 31 heads? Is it chamber size and a bit higher compression with the 31s, or are they basically the same?

[Greg Reid]

To add to the above question...What is the difference between the RAI and the HO? I really thought they were the same...except maybe for open scoops on the RA?

[68bird400HO]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

To add to the above question...What is the difference between the RAI and the HO? I really thought they were the same...except maybe for open scoops on the RA?

For 68, it was largely the tall rear gears that were part of the ram air package. They also had different cams and different carbs & distributors tuned for that package.

[HO Kenny]

31 heads used the taller valves. I can't remember if they were the same as the RA ii. Swirl polished or tulip.
I think it has the same combustion chamber shape as the 16. I've never had one off.
I have never found anyone publish flow numbers of the 31 heads. I'd sure like to see one.
The distributor is the same as a regular 400.
The carb is different. The 7028277 on the firebird must be made out of unubtainium used on the millennium falcon. I could never find one.

[68bird400HO]

Not sure why they would have taller valves as I believe the cam lift was the same as the standard 400. I also think head flow was the same, or similar.

[Greg Reid]

I thought the RA and HO used the 068 and the base GTO used 067?...or maybe The RA used the 744?

[HO Kenny]

The RA 4 speed used the 744 cam. It had bigger duration. The valves were flat, tall, polished valves. The taller valves were for the bigger valve springs because the larger cam moved the rpms up. Too bad they didn't use different connecting rods and bolts. That's why so few original engined RA cars exist.
I found an old thunder am article from 1980.
For some reason I can only upload I file at a time.

[HO Kenny]

Page 2

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by HO Kenny

The RA 4 speed used the 744 cam. It had bigger duration. The valves were flat, tall, polished valves. The taller valves were for the bigger valve springs because the larger cam moved the rpms up. Too bad they didn't use different connecting rods and bolts. That's why so few original engined RA cars exist.
I found an old thunder am article from 1980.
For some reason I can only upload I file at a time.

Had more to do with the 4:33 gears - rods & pistons don't let go in a Pontiac - you spin a bearing, then they let go.

[HO Kenny]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Had more to do with the 4:33 gears - rods & pistons don't let go in a Pontiac - you spin a bearing, then they let go.

I heard at hight rpms the bolts would stretch letting the bearing spin. Destruction follows in time.

[Greg Reid]

So RA and HO both used the 068, RA III used the 744 and RAIV used the 041...I think?

[68bird400HO]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

So RA and HO both used the 068, RA III used the 744 and RAIV used the 041...I think?

Here is how I understand it:

HO auto 067
HO stick 068, one source says 744 for GTO
RAI auto 068
RAI stick 744
RAII auto 041?
RAII stick 041

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

I thought the RA and HO used the 068 and the base GTO used 067?...or maybe The RA used the 744?

According to the Pontiac parts books, in 1967 the HO GTOs had 068 and RA had the 744.

Then in 68 they differed based on transmission.
HO AT is 067 cam
HO MT is 068 cam
RA AT is 068 cam
RA MT is 744 cam
RAII AT is 068 cam
RAII MT is 041 cam

The charts in the parts book for 69 and 70 don't show the camshaft numbers so the only reference that I am aware of are listed in the GTOAA identification guide. That book shows RA with the 068 and RA IV with the 041 in both years and both trans types with an exception for early production 69 manual trans RA cars which had the 744 up through about engine number 709185.

[PurelyGTO68]

Here is the chart I was looking at for 68. Maybe someone can check if I am reading it correctly. Plays trick on my eyes if I stare at it too long...

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Greg Reid]

I completely forgot about the auto vs. manual thing. Good chart..I'm sure I have it somewhere. What publication is that from by the way?

[PurelyGTO68]

I found the chart in the Chassis Illustration and General Information Catalog. I have been referring to those books as the Master Parts Catalog but I am not sure I am using the correct term?

The charts for 68 and earlier show the cam, distributor and carburetor numbers for each engine broadcast code but the charts for 69 thru 71 don't show that info.

I did find something else in another book that lists the cam specs for 69 Ram Air (III) and it matches the 068/744 info.

Then later in that same book is the 1970 Performance Engine Chart that we all have seen many times and it shows just the 068 for Ram Air and 041 for the RAIV. Here is the page for the 69 info in case anyone is curious...

Still, even though Pontiac published the cam usage and other detailed info... that doesn't mean there aren't exceptions that turn up now and then. Keeps us on our toes.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[RA1John]

On Engine Chart above, what is the significance/purpose of the last (2) numbers of the Engine number? Is this referring to the Engine Unit Number (EUN) or...?