[dataway]

The scan is from a 69 Assembly Manual re-print. The loose leaf version ... comes in very handy IF you have the table of contents printed out. Someone went through the whole thing and made up a table of contents ... downloaded it somewhere on this forum. Makes the manual about 1000% more useful.

The drum on the right looks likes the rears I have seen on 68's.

The typical Moog bushings have a dull zinc plate on them, at least that is what it looks like to me. It's not paint anyway, nor is it bare steel.

Purely .... where did you get the lock nuts you used under the nuts? I noticed the Ames kit doesn't include them. I have a selection of black oxide lock nuts, and some shiny zinc ones, but the factory stuff was usually that dull gray zinc.

I used that POR Cast Manifold Gray on my exhaust manifolds ... excellent stuff, at least the way it goes on, covers and dries. Haven't run the engine yet. Also found the "Spray Gray" from Eastwood to be pretty good for stuff like sway bar, control arm shafts etc.

Also ... what order did you run lines top to bottom ... Fuel Supply - Fuel Return - Brake ?

[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by dataway

The typical Moog bushings have a dull zinc plate on them, at least that is what it looks like to me. It's not paint anyway, nor is it bare steel.

Purely .... where did you get the lock nuts you used under the nuts? I noticed the Ames kit doesn't include them. I have a selection of black oxide lock nuts, and some shiny zinc ones, but the factory stuff was usually that dull gray zinc.

I used that POR Cast Manifold Gray on my exhaust manifolds ... excellent stuff, at least the way it goes on, covers and dries. Haven't run the engine yet.

Interesting, here I though the Moog bushings were bare steel. I see my local autoparts store has the upper fronts in stock, I'll stop in there & take a look. I have seen several google images of new ones where rust can be seen. Made me wonder. Maybe install them & brush on some rust prevention magic for good measure? I'm going to order some of that soon & see if its as good as they say. When I restored my chassis the first time around I installed energy suspension bushings to stiffen up the car a bit. Now I am not so sure I care about that anymore. I love the clean look of the yellow cad finish, but its so obvious what they are. I initially bought them to try & prevent wheel hop.

I used a coating on my manifolds that was supposed to be like a porcelain based paint. It looked great & seemed to hold up well. Even after breaking in my camshaft, nothing burned off, they looked exactly the same. However, fast forward 10 years & they are rusting again. Never run, or driven. Just started up a couple times over the last decade to keep the engine lubricated inside.

I am going to send them out to have them ceramic coated this time. Just not sure where yet. Found a few places here in Wisconsin.

[dataway]

The coating on the moog stuff may be some kind of sacrificial coating to protect during storage and ease installation. Actually it seems probably too soft to be zinc, could be some kind of cold oxide treatment. It almost feels dusty ... might hold up well if oiled after installation.
Problem with painting them is it will probably get destroyed while installing them.

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by 68ragtop

I can't say I know what the originals look like, but the left side on your axle looks a bit too deep. I don't believe they ever went past the backing plate that far?

Guessing your bushing are Moog. I think thats pretty much what everyone is selling that is closest to original. I assumed they were bare steel, interesting that they have a coating on them. I am on the fence yet about using the energy suspension ones I have, or buying the moog. I might order them to have a closer look.

I was thinking the same thing...about the LH drum running back too deep. IIRC, they both had the same 2 letter code cast in the drum but very different date codes. One date would tend to be for a 67 model while the other would be for early 68. My car is late May 68 so maybe neither drum is original? I think the one on the right looks more correct though. Will keep an eye out for another one and install it later.

For now it won't hold me up. Have to get this thing finished already...

Yeah, I think they were Moog bushings. Not bare steel though. If they were bare then I would have cleared them first. I lubed them before pressing so the dull zinc finish (or whatever it is) would not get too damaged. I also filled the receiving holes in the control arms since those were powder coated.

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[68ragtop]

no doubt painting would never work, unless a guy wanted to methodically tape everything off after pressing them into the control arms. I'm going to pick up a set just to see what they look like.

What I don't want is to have them rusty in 5 years. I torment myself with stuff like this.

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by dataway

The scan is from a 69 Assembly Manual re-print. The loose leaf version ... comes in very handy IF you have the table of contents printed out. Someone went through the whole thing and made up a table of contents ... downloaded it somewhere on this forum. Makes the manual about 1000% more useful.

The drum on the right looks likes the rears I have seen on 68's.

The typical Moog bushings have a dull zinc plate on them, at least that is what it looks like to me. It's not paint anyway, nor is it bare steel.

Purely .... where did you get the lock nuts you used under the nuts? I noticed the Ames kit doesn't include them. I have a selection of black oxide lock nuts, and some shiny zinc ones, but the factory stuff was usually that dull gray zinc.

I used that POR Cast Manifold Gray on my exhaust manifolds ... excellent stuff, at least the way it goes on, covers and dries. Haven't run the engine yet. Also found the "Spray Gray" from Eastwood to be pretty good for stuff like sway bar, control arm shafts etc.

Also ... what order did you run lines top to bottom ... Fuel Supply - Fuel Return - Brake ?

I reused the original lock nuts. Hardware our here in AZ doesn't usually rust much so we can usually wire wheel them clean and then refinish and reuse. Many times I am able to see signs of the original finish when I take stuff apart for the first time but sometimes it's hard to tell. I make notes on the index card that goes in the bag for what the finish should be. I usually clean and refinish the hardware just before I need to use it vs doing them all months before and storing until needed. I did that on other cars and then second guessed myself on the finishes later. Now I leave them how they came apart until just before I need them and study the finishes and witness marks again. Helps to answer questions that come up later about orientation, what order things were stacked etc.

Yes, lines top to bottom are fuel supply, fuel return and brake on bottom. The fuel supply lines are clipped together with little black S shaped clips. My original lines had no visible signs of tags anywhere that I could detect.

The POR cast manifold stuff holds up. I have been using it for years. Here is a photo of the engine compartment of our '61. Finished this in 2014 I think. We drive this car about once a week. Manifolds look exactly the same as when this photo was taken.


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[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by PurelyGTO68

I reused the original lock nuts. Hardware our here in AZ doesn't usually rust much so we can usually wire wheel them clean and then refinish and reuse. Many times I am able to see signs of the original finish when I take stuff apart for the first time but sometimes it's hard to tell. I make notes on the index card that goes in the bag for what the finish should be. I usually clean and refinish the hardware just before I need to use it vs doing them all months before and storing until needed. I did that on other cars and then second guessed myself on the finishes later. Now I leave them how they came apart until just before I need them and study the finishes and witness marks again. Helps to answer questions that come up later about orientation, what order things were stacked etc.

Yes, lines top to bottom are fuel supply, fuel return and brake on bottom. The fuel supply lines are clipped together with little black S shaped clips. My original lines had no visible signs of tags anywhere that I could detect.

The POR cast manifold stuff holds up. I have been using it for years. Here is a photo of the engine compartment of our '61. Finished this in 2014 I think. We drive this car about once a week. Manifolds look exactly the same as when this photo was taken.


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Posted a crappy photo the first time...
Here is another one that I dug up. Shows the manifolds better. Have driven the heck out of this car and the manifold paint still looks perfect.

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[68ragtop]

Well, the Moog is no longer what it was. Probably another Federal mogul thing...

Just picked up a a pair & these have been dunked is some sort of cheesy paint. Not only is it semi gloss black, the finish is quite horrible.

Back to the drawing board......

.

[dataway]

What is that? A 409? Cool engines, love the strange stuff.

Something looks wrong there with that bushing. I've never seen one that messed up looking. I bet there is rust under that paint or whatever it is. I'd consider taking them back. If the metal under that paint is that rough it would be totally unacceptable. Looks almost like a customer returned old pieces that they painted to get a refund and kept the new ones.

I've noticed lately with my stuff from Rock Auto that almost all the boxes/packages have already been opened .... doesn't give me much confidence in the parts.

Bushing should look something like this. GM pieces are of noticeably better quality ... probably not enough to matter, but in your hand you can see the difference.

[PurelyGTO68]

It's a 348 cubic inch engine. Later (1962) was bored and stroked to become the famous 409. We call them "W" engines....not sure exactly why. Maybe because the valve covers looks like a W or maybe because the cylinders are wedge shaped....maybe both reasons?

The 348 was Chevy's first try at a big block. Very successful but limited with what modification could be used so the hot rod crowd migrated towards other designs that could be fiddled with more. The car in that photo is a 1961 Bel Air with the optional 348 engine and manual trans. Very rare since most 348 engines we're ordered with the higher trim level Impala instead. Rare to see a Bel Air with the big engine. Father in law has owned that car since new. He worked at Chevrolet dealership in town and bought that car straight off the train when it rolled into town. (Built at LA plant...)
Cool car.

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[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by dataway

Something looks wrong there with that bushing. I've never seen one that messed up looking. I bet there is rust under that paint or whatever it is. I'd consider taking them back. If the metal under that paint is that rough it would be totally unacceptable. Looks almost like a customer returned old pieces that they painted to get a refund and kept the new ones.

I've noticed lately with my stuff from Rock Auto that almost all the boxes/packages have already been opened .... doesn't give me much confidence in the parts.

Bushing should look something like this. GM pieces are of noticeably better quality ... probably not enough to matter, but in your hand you can see the difference.

My guess is its a change in production & probably another Moog drop in quality via Federal Mogul, But thats my guess. They came in sealed bags, & they had three sets in stock. All of them identical. They appear to me to be dipped.

I won't be going this route & there's a good chance the ones that have the gray Zinc will be disappearing soon. Part number Moog # K5196 "Made in India"

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by 68ragtop

My guess is its a change in production & probably another Moog drop in quality via Federal Mogul, But thats my guess. They came in sealed bags, & they had three sets in stock. All of them identical. They appear to me to be dipped.

I won't be going this route & there's a good chance the ones that have the gray Zinc will be disappearing soon. Part number Moog # K5196 "Made in India"

You can call Ames and see what theirs are like. That is where I got my set from.

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['ol Pinion head]

Unacceptable on the crappy finsh control arm bushings.

Id start hitting the local parts stores looking for older stock moog

[dataway]

I guess it's possible with stock for older cars sitting around longer and longer these days maybe the old finish was holding up and people were getting rusty parts in their boxes so they went with a new coating.
Still, I'd want to know that the metal underneath was as smooth as it's supposed to be or it won't press well.

Unlike some, I like the old Chevies, they made some cool stuff with lots of strange performance options.

[68ragtop]

I'll put a caliper on it later today. My guess is the coating is only so it looks reasonable in the persons hands before install, But I'm thinking it would all scrape off on the press fitting area.

Just maybe, They have more than one plant making them & the bushings Ames and others have are still the original style & the box parts stores have this garbage?

[68ragtop]

Yep, thick paint coating on the "new" version of the K5196 will for sure scrape off when installed. Appears to be bare stamped steel underneath.

As far as the motor mount nuts. I took some new grade 5 nuts & bolts, lightly bead blasted them & painted them with an implement grade flat black.
Actually looks pretty good & might hold up a lot better in the long term. I'll give them a try & post some picts later.

[68ragtop]

I put 1/8" washers on the backside, so not as much threads exposed as there would be otherwise.

[dataway]

That's what I plan on doing ... I have a bunch of the right size black finished washers in the hardware bin.

Lots hope that great looking frame doesn't get covered in too much dust before you finish

[68ragtop]

I was going to paint the brackets black, but then I was seeing some natural. I went natural just to break it up a little. Not that you can seem much of them all said & done.

I had a lot of original fasteners re-plated (incorrectly) in clear cad years back. I might do the same thing to my power steering bolts & washers. The paint looks so dang close, & a painted cad plated bolt will probably hold up perfectly over time & then they are still the originals too

[68ragtop]

I was just thinking. I know the washers are shown in the manual, but is it possible the went under the bolt head when installed upside-down? Those original picts you guys posted, I can't quite see the washers under the nuts. I'm fine with how they are & my car will have a bunch of things not correct, but for conversation sake I thought I would ask as others might be more original purist than I am.