[1965gp]

I agree that it’s rare to find someone young with that work ethic- but if an entire generation does it it will be difficult to force them to change. We try very hard to train our new sales guys to respect the job, but it isn’t easy.

This generation works to enjoy life rather than previous generations that live to work.

When you look at it like that I can see their position but it will also limit their individual opportunities.

For example if you work for 5 years and have multiple jobs that work around your hobby/passion (Uber, tackle, etc) you really haven’t educated yourself with a skill. 5 years later you are still applying for the same entry level job but you did get to enjoy your hobby/passion.

Traditionally if you work 5 years in a field you may be training the entry level person at the end of those 5 years and looking for your next opportunity. But you probably did not have as much free time to explore your hobby.

Both routes provide life experience- one with lateral moves and freedom; one with vertical moves and knowledge

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by 1965gp

This generation works to enjoy life rather than previous generations that live to work.

Considering we get canned in an instant because some shareholder wanted their stock to go up $10/share but it "only" went up $9.50/share for the quarter and therefore... it's a loss and employees gotta go. Companies have zero loyalty to their employees, especially the lower rung ones. I work at a job I enjoy and I have zero loyalty to a company after being canned to finance our COO's arrangement of a corporate buyout (to the tune of $1.2B) for him and his friends. Yeah, we're the ones with no work ethic...

[Sirrotica]

With the economy the way it is right now, and shortage of quality labor you're probably going to see labor unions making a comeback. Corporations for so many years have had more applicants than they've had jobs, the shoe is now on the other foot. Qualified job candidates are going to have more clout and choice where they go for their profession. If I were in the market for a job I'd want a contract of sorts to assure I had some job security down the road.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

With the economy the way it is right now, and shortage of quality labor you're probably going to see labor unions making a comeback. Corporations for so many years have had more applicants than they've had jobs, the shoe is now on the other foot. Qualified job candidates are going to have more clout and choice where they go for their profession. If I were in the market for a job I'd want a contract of sorts to assure I had some job security down the road.

I would very much like to see that.

The problem is most people are afraid to take a stand for themselves. In 19 out of 20 cases companies may preach loyalty but they have none. You have to be willing to look out for number one.

I’m not necessarily looking for a new job. But my resume is ALWAYS out there. I turn down job offers regularly but I’m always willing to talk about opportunity. I am also willing to walk away, which most people aren’t. That threat has to be there on your end. If the company feels you aren’t going to do anything but mutter under your breath about conditions it’s all over. You have to be willing to walk.

It’s easier for me to say because I don’t have a family. But still. Have an emergency savings plan so you can leave. Or even if you don’t out and out quit, be willing to look for a new job and quit once you have found it. Don’t settle.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

I would very much like to see that.

The problem is most people are afraid to take a stand for themselves. In 19 out of 20 cases companies may preach loyalty but they have none. You have to be willing to look out for number one.

I’m not necessarily looking for a new job. But my resume is ALWAYS out there. I turn down job offers regularly but I’m always willing to talk about opportunity. I am also willing to walk away, which most people aren’t. That threat has to be there on your end. If the company feels you aren’t going to do anything but mutter under your breath about conditions it’s all over. You have to be willing to walk.

It’s easier for me to say because I don’t have a family. But still. Have an emergency savings plan so you can leave. Or even if you don’t out and out quit, be willing to look for a new job and quit once you have found it. Don’t settle.

Nearly 20 years ago I had 3 companies that wanted to hire me as a service tech. I worked them and got things like 2 weeks of vacation on my start date, adding a third week at 1 year anniversary. Moving allowances were one thing that was necessary because I was moving 500 miles to take these jobs. It can be done if you have some negotiating skills, and willing to walk away as you've said. It's similar to buying a car, make up your mind before you negotiate where you want to end up.

My wife never tries to negotiate anything when she is interviewing for a job, which pisses me off because she's an RN and good people in her field are not common. She has a skill that is in high demand by employers.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Nearly 20 years ago I had 3 companies that wanted to hire me as a service tech. I worked them and got things like 2 weeks of vacation on my start date, adding a third week at 1 year anniversary. Moving allowances were one thing that was necessary because I was moving 500 miles to take these jobs. It can be done if you have some negotiating skills, and willing to walk away as you've said. It's similar to buying a car, make up your mind before you negotiate where you want to end up.

My wife never tries to negotiate anything when she is interviewing for a job, which pisses me off because she's an RN and good people in her field are not common. She has a skill that is in high demand by employers.

I wish I could find it now but I read an article a few years ago. The article was showing that companies were going to "No Negotiation Hiring" because negotiations were sexist. The basis of the idea being that men were more likely to negotiate for better starting pay/benefits than women. Therefore you end up with a wage differential because men negotiated a better starting point.

I remember reading that and thinking "What idiot thinks its a good idea to take away the only power you as an employee have against the big corporate machine. " But of course the companies were thrilled to be able to put that policy in place.

Im all for equal pay for equal work and all, but you get that by standing up for yourself. Not by expecting big corporate America to be benevolent.

[Formula496]

Here's a little help in dealing with millenials.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz0o9clVQu8

I go through this at work all the time. Our trade (concrete cutting) is not an easy one or for everybody so I get the coming in and leaving after a week but getting anybody young in has been terrible. Helpers start out being paid pretty well at our company and like anything else the more you are willing to learn and more equipment you can operate the further up the ladder you can go. Most of these kids come in not knowing anything construction related at all. Most don't even know which way a nut or bolt comes apart. All they want to do all day is play on there phones and bitch about not making more money. After they work here for a couple of months they think they know everything and want there own truck and they think should be making top $$ Young people have no concept of working hard and moving up in the world. They just want to come in and make top dollar with no experience or desire to show any interest in being taught anything so they can succeed.

We had a kid we hired who was still in high school at the time to clean up around the shop, wash equipment, get things ready for the operators to load the next day. He worked ok at first but once he graduated and was off from school we wanted him to come in a 9am instead of 3pm and go from part time to full time. Consistently showed up late or not at all. Always on his phone either fighting with his girlfriend or his brothers for at least an hour. Then he would walk around and b.s with everybody coming back from there jobs. So he spent most of the time doing nothing then hurriedly doing everything half ass before he went home. One day I had enough and told him to get his sh*t together or I'm going to fire him. He got all defensive, started yelling and cursing at me and couldn't grasp the concept of why I was going to fire him. He said to me this isn't a "real job"
I lost it and asked him if he got a real paycheck at the end of the week. He now works at a restaurant making less money.

There have been exceptions though. We had another kid who started out the same way the other one did and pretty much the same story but after a few years and with a couple of us in his ear he started to show some willingness to learn and start operating equipment on his own. He made a turn around and has greatly improved. Our trade has guys in there mid to late 40's all the way up to mid 50's who can't do this kind of work forever and finding young people to carry the torch has been really hard.