[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by tigergto

I could never understand the fascination with those cars.

I think there are several factors at work here. 1. It's a Buick. Cars designed for people 75 years old and older. "the last car you will ever own" should have been their motto. BUT every 25 years or so, they come out with a model that is just fantastic and so out of character with their "brand", it can't be ignored. 1938 Buick Century 8, 1970 Stage 1 cars and GSX , 86-87 Grand Nationals. GNX. If you are a Buick fan, your pickings are as slim as AMC almost. 2. The timing was perfect for this car much like the SD-455 Trans Am. The GN's were so far ahead of all the competition, it was ridiculous to even compare. A small efficient V-6, sequential port fuel injection, distributerless ignition, turbocharged, super high tech for the time. I remember going to our local drag strip in 1986 and watching a brand new Corvette and a GN run them off. The GN won by damn near 1/2 track. 25+ car lengths. We were all just standing there with our jaws dragging the ground. And it was silent.
That's what all the excitement is about in my opinion. Buick hasn't built a car that will be remembered in any meaningful way since. So in a way, it's the last great Buick. There is value in that.

[flyingn]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I think there are several factors at work here. 1. It's a Buick. Cars designed for people 75 years old and older. "the last car you will ever own" should have been their motto. BUT every 25 years or so, they come out with a model that is just fantastic and so out of character with their "brand", it can't be ignored. 1938 Buick Century 8, 1970 Stage 1 cars and GSX , 86-87 Grand Nationals. GNX. If you are a Buick fan, your pickings are as slim as AMC almost. 2. The timing was perfect for this car much like the SD-455 Trans Am. The GN's were so far ahead of all the competition, it was ridiculous to even compare. A small efficient V-6, sequential port fuel injection, distributerless ignition, turbocharged, super high tech for the time. I remember going to our local drag strip in 1986 and watching a brand new Corvette and a GN run them off. The GN won by damn near 1/2 track. 25+ car lengths. We were all just standing there with our jaws dragging the ground. And it was silent.
That's what all the excitement is about in my opinion. Buick hasn't built a car that will be remembered in any meaningful way since. So in a way, it's the last great Buick. There is value in that.

Well said. These cars were nothing short of legendary when new and spared on the streets. There was a shop near me who for $995, promised a 12 second time slip with a stock GN. Slicks, a bleed valve and tricks to richen it up was all it took to run legit 12.8's with a stocker

[mgarblik]

As an engine guy, there is one more area about those cars that flat amazes me. If you open one of those engines up what do you find? A bunch of cast iron junk is what you find in there!! How in the heck those little engines stayed together and made that kind of power and much more with stock rotating assemblies defies logic. Cast crankshaft, cast rods, heavy full skirted pistons, iron heads, small valves. You look at it assembled and swear it will be a pile of cast iron kitty litter at 150 HP! But I don't recall any significant engine issues while those cars were popular and being serviced under warranty. The same can't be said for the rear ends. They would literally explode the second you bolted a pair of slicks on them. I remember one being brought in on a flat bed tow truck. Rubber all over the rear quarters but now with stock wheels on it. White haired lady said, "I just don't know what happened?" We opened the trunk and found a bowling ball sized hole right in front of the gas tank! The entire center section had blown apart and the pinion and front of the housing went through the trunk.

[Bermuda Blue]

Buick V6 turbo cranks have deep rolled fillet journals making them much stronger than NA cranks which did not have rolled fillets. NA cranks can't handle forced induction - ask me how i know.

[flyingn]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

. The same can't be said for the rear ends. They would literally explode the second you bolted a pair of slicks on them. I remember one being brought in on a flat bed tow truck. Rubber all over the rear quarters but now with stock wheels on it. White haired lady said, "I just don't know what happened?" We opened the trunk and found a bowling ball sized hole right in front of the gas tank! The entire center section had blown apart and the pinion and front of the housing went through the trunk.

That was a fluke as the GN's had a pretty strong 8.5" 10 bolt corporate rear. I've seen them stay together well into the 10's.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by flyingn

That was a fluke as the GN's had a pretty strong 8.5" 10 bolt corporate rear. I've seen them stay together well into the 10's.

I may be wrong here, but didn't the GN's have that mechanical limited slip unit with the governor and the tiny flyweights they called the "Eaton Locker". Seems like I remember all those delicate little parts blew apart and got caught in various places locking up bearings and blowing the cases apart. I am sure we had more than 1 GN come in with the rear blown apart. Again my memory is a little foggy on this but I think I remember a customer bringing in his own old school case and wanting us to install it in place of that locker unit. Otherwise, I agree, that 8.5" should have been able to survive that power level.

[flyingn]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I may be wrong here, but didn't the GN's have that mechanical limited slip unit with the governor and the tiny flyweights they called the "Eaton Locker". Seems like I remember all those delicate little parts blew apart and got caught in various places locking up bearings and blowing the cases apart. I am sure we had more than 1 GN come in with the rear blown apart. Again my memory is a little foggy on this but I think I remember a customer bringing in his own old school case and wanting us to install it in place of that locker unit. Otherwise, I agree, that 8.5" should have been able to survive that power level.

No, they had regular clutch type limited slip rears.

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I may be wrong here, but didn't the GN's have that mechanical limited slip unit with the governor and the tiny flyweights they called the "Eaton Locker". Seems like I remember all those delicate little parts blew apart and got caught in various places locking up bearings and blowing the cases apart. I am sure we had more than 1 GN come in with the rear blown apart. Again my memory is a little foggy on this but I think I remember a customer bringing in his own old school case and wanting us to install it in place of that locker unit. Otherwise, I agree, that 8.5" should have been able to survive that power level.

'83-87 G-body 8.5 rears which were factory assembled with a posi should have a #8 "S spring" posi carrier. Have built up several 8.5 G-body rears that are living in 10 sec GN's & T-types, quite a few more at that level as 8.5 A-body & X-body rears.

GovLocks were the junky Eaton swing out lever style posi units that were optional in GM pickups & SUV's. Have examined many many of this style carrier blown up, carrier destroyed, as well as & taking out the ring & pinion. In quite a few cases, the destruction took out the housings LH cap, & occasionally, the housing where the LH cap bolts thread in. Too many let go in putt-a-round vehicles, no way I will assemble a pickup rear with one, esp for performance use.

Below are most of the GM factory uses of the Eaton GovLock, occasionally, one will run across such a carrier that has been later installed in GM rear that would have originally built as a single track or was originally assembled with a traditional clutch style posi, or a Warner Motive or Auburn cone type posi.

- earliast original version I've run across was in a '71 1/2 ton Pickup rear, 8 7/8 12 bolt Pickup (not car)
- 8.5 1/2 ton (no Big10) Pickup/Blazers beginning w '77 models,
- there's a huge 10.25"(?) version which was used in the late '70's-mid 80's GM 3/4 ton truck rears.
- the S10 7.5/7.625 versions, have ran across several of these rigged into '82+ F-body rears.
- 30 spline 8.5/8.6 GovLock used up into the early '00's is latest application I've run across. Rebuilt an '03 Avalanche rear last month that it's GovLock decided to let go...PITA.

[joegpho]

Wasn't the GovLock used in the 8.5" rears for B-bodies for 94-96?

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

'83-87 G-body 8.5 rears which were factory assembled with a posi should have a #8 "S spring" posi carrier. Have built up several 8.5 G-body rears that are living in 10 sec GN's & T-types, quite a few more at that level as 8.5 A-body & X-body rears.

GovLocks were the junky Eaton swing out lever style posi units that were optional in GM pickups & SUV's. Have examined many many of this style carrier blown up, carrier destroyed, as well as & taking out the ring & pinion. In quite a few cases, the destruction took out the housings LH cap, & occasionally, the housing where the LH cap bolts thread in. Too many let go in putt-a-round vehicles, no way I will assemble a pickup rear with one, esp for performance use.

Below are most of the GM factory uses of the Eaton GovLock, occasionally, one will run across such a carrier that has been later installed in GM rear that would have originally built as a single track or was originally assembled with a traditional clutch style posi, or a Warner Motive or Auburn cone type posi.

- earliast original version I've run across was in a '71 1/2 ton Pickup rear, 8 7/8 12 bolt Pickup (not car)
- 8.5 1/2 ton (no Big10) Pickup/Blazers beginning w '77 models,
- there's a huge 10.25"(?) version which was used in the late '70's-mid 80's GM 3/4 ton truck rears.
- the S10 7.5/7.625 versions, have ran across several of these rigged into '82+ F-body rears.
- 30 spline 8.5/8.6 GovLock used up into the early '00's is latest application I've run across. Rebuilt an '03 Avalanche rear last month that it's GovLock decided to let go...PITA.

Thanks for clearing up the application of the Eaton locker. I knew you or a few others would have the straight story on that. So I guess it's a mystery why we had a few failures on the GN cars? It happens. If a driver does enough stupid stuff, anything can break. Will say I was surprised that car stalled and sold at 70,600.00. That's less than the 2006 Honda S 2000 I mentioned earlier in the tread. Go figure. I'll take the slightly dirty, poorly stored GN any day over a 4-cyl Honda, Miata look alike. Or neither in reality. I think that GN cleaned-up properly would top 100K in a proper selling atmosphere. E-bay may not be the right venue for it. Guess that's why I lose money on every car I buy.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

If you are a Buick fan, your pickings are as slim as AMC almost.

I disagree there. Buick has far more offerings than AMC. I think for most of the muscle car era they had cars I would own. Basically any year I would own of a Chevelle I would drive the Buick A body too.

Riveras are cool. Best dash ever maybe. the 1957 Buick is the best of the GM tri five offerings IMO. 1958 is second to Pontiac.

Nailheads were important for performance in their time too. A popular flathead swap.

[eaglesan13]

In 1978 I was an apprentice mechanic at a local Lincoln Mercury dealer. I got assigned to do a Pre-Delivery Inspection (PDI) on a new Bobcat. The Bobcat was the Mercury version of the Ford Pinto. While it was a little more "upscale" than the Pinto, they were basically the same car. I got the car in my stall and some guy comes over to talk to me. He's the new owner, having already purchased the car. He tells me he wants all the protective plastic stuff on the carpet, seats and steering wheel left in place. When I asked why, he said since the Bobcat/Pinto was being discontinued, he purchased the car as an investment. He thinks it's going to go up in value, so he intends to take it home, put it up on jack stands, and store the car and sell it for big money some day. I remember thinking to myself, it's a f-ing Pinto!

Whenever I see cars like this one on eBay, I always wonder what ever became of that Bobcat, and what it might be worth today.

[flyingn]

Originally Posted by eaglesan13

In 1978 I was an apprentice mechanic at a local Lincoln Mercury dealer. I got assigned to do a Pre-Delivery Inspection (PDI) on a new Bobcat. The Bobcat was the Mercury version of the Ford Pinto. While it was a little more "upscale" than the Pinto, they were basically the same car. I got the car in my stall and some guy comes over to talk to me. He's the new owner, having already purchased the car. He tells me he wants all the protective plastic stuff on the carpet, seats and steering wheel left in place. When I asked why, he said since the Bobcat/Pinto was being discontinued, he purchased the car as an investment. He thinks it's going to go up in value, so he intends to take it home, put it up on jack stands, and store the car and sell it for big money some day. I remember thinking to myself, it's a f-ing Pinto!

Whenever I see cars like this one on eBay, I always wonder what ever became of that Bobcat, and what it might be worth today.

well, in reality, I'll bet if he stored it correctly, he may be able to double his money today with it

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by eaglesan13

In 1978 I was an apprentice mechanic at a local Lincoln Mercury dealer. I got assigned to do a Pre-Delivery Inspection (PDI) on a new Bobcat. The Bobcat was the Mercury version of the Ford Pinto. While it was a little more "upscale" than the Pinto, they were basically the same car. I got the car in my stall and some guy comes over to talk to me. He's the new owner, having already purchased the car. He tells me he wants all the protective plastic stuff on the carpet, seats and steering wheel left in place. When I asked why, he said since the Bobcat/Pinto was being discontinued, he purchased the car as an investment. He thinks it's going to go up in value, so he intends to take it home, put it up on jack stands, and store the car and sell it for big money some day. I remember thinking to myself, it's a f-ing Pinto!

Whenever I see cars like this one on eBay, I always wonder what ever became of that Bobcat, and what it might be worth today.

I don't know what it would be worth. A guess might be around $7500.00 if he never drove it. Truthfully, it would have been worth more as a Pinto today as some Ford dealer may have wanted it on their showroom today. With Mercury out of business, that plan goes away. Along the same line, we have an excellent little car show in my home town each year. They close off the streets and do a nice job. Last year there was a plain Jane white 71 Vega 2 door. Few options but it did have a white and black houndstooth kinda looking interior. It was just in immaculate condition. I could tell it was unrestored. Looked in the window and it had 1500 miles on it. I remember thinking the same thing. What's the most $$ this car could possibly be worth? 5-6 K? Why would someone collect it? I guess the same reason people collect Pacers, Gremlins and Yugo's.

[Chris65LeMans]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I don't know what it would be worth. A guess might be around $7500.00 if he never drove it. Truthfully, it would have been worth more as a Pinto today as some Ford dealer may have wanted it on their showroom today. .

I don’t think it would help sales to have one of those pos ‘s in the showroom.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I don't know what it would be worth. A guess might be around $7500.00 if he never drove it. Truthfully, it would have been worth more as a Pinto today as some Ford dealer may have wanted it on their showroom today.

Never discount what any mint low mileage car will sell for, if you have the right people in the room. A 1978 Pinto station wagon with 15,000 miles on the odometer went for $33,000 at the Mecum Monterey auction back in August.

[TAKerry]

RockP is right, most of our cars are assets, but few are investments, at least investments with a good return. To the GN that was stored, this was def. intended to be an investment. There was/will be a good return but it could have been much better if spent elsewhere. Having said that, I still have to get up and go to work every morning to pay the bills

[tigergto]

[QUOTE=mgarblik;6002057]I think there are several factors at work here. 1. It's a Buick. Cars designed for people 75 years old and older. "the last car you will ever own" should have been their motto. BUT every 25 years or so, they come out with a model that is just fantastic and so out of character with their "brand", it can't be ignored. 1938 Buick Century 8, 1970 Stage 1 cars and GSX , 86-87 Grand Nationals. GNX. If you are a Buick fan, your pickings are as slim as AMC almost. 2. The timing was perfect for this car much like the SD-455 Trans Am. The GN's were so far ahead of all the competition, it was ridiculous to even compare. A small efficient V-6, sequential port fuel injection, distributerless ignition, turbocharged, super high tech for the time. I remember going to our local drag strip in 1986 and watching a brand new Corvette and a GN run them off. The GN won by damn near 1/2 track. 25+ car lengths. We were all just standing there with our jaws dragging the ground. And it was silent.
That's what all the excitement is about in my opinion. Buick hasn't built a car that will be remembered in any meaningful way since. So in a way, it's the last great Buick. There is value in that.[/QUOTE

Thanks, that helps me understand the fascination a little better.