FAQ |
Members List |
Social Groups |
Calendar |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
|
||||
|
||||
Towing With a 1977
I have been thinking about putting a receiver on my 77 Bonneville to tow with. I've already found a receiver that fits the car and while I don't plan on towing very much weight, I cant seem to find a tow rating for the car.
I'm already planning on replacing the springs, shocks and changing from a 2.41 open rear end to 3.23 posi. I also have a 455 that will hopefully replace the 350 in the near future. Does anyone know about how much I'll be able to tow? Also any advice would be much appreciated.
__________________
2004 GTO 1977 Bonneville Brougham 1977 Bonneville Brougham Parts Car |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
I towed with a '77 GP SJ with no problem. Fact is, I still have the class V hitch. I don't know about the smaller Bonnys but the weight of my GP was around what todays 1/2 ton pickups weigh.
|
#3
|
||||
|
||||
the frame of the 77 and up B body is basically the 73-77 A and G body frame so that shouldn't be an issue. Neither of them are as stout as the 71-76 B body frame or rear axle assembly.
__________________
My Break Away Squad 1969 Fbird (base OHC, 350, 400HO & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA ht’s) 1969 Custom S 2dr ht 1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr ht & Cvt) 1969 LeMans Safari wagon 1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 ht & Judge ht) 1969 Cat (3 Cvt’s & 2dr ht) 1969 Ventura wagon 2 seat 1969 Exec 4dr post 1969 Bonnie Cvt & 2 wagons 1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr ht & Cvt) 1969 Grand Prix 2 SJ’s 1969 2+2 2dr ht (Canadian) |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
I find this whole statement questionable. A '77 Bonny was a smaller car and I towed a car trailer with my GP.
|
#5
|
||||
|
||||
A 77-82 B body frame is basically identical to the 73-77 A body frame (except that the A body 2 door was a few inches shorter). Overall these two car families are very similar in terms of size and weight when comparably equipped.
I was just saying that from a chassis integrity point of view they should have similar towing capability. I didn’t consider engine, trans, cooling etc because the original post referred to swapping out engines anyhow. And both those models (77-82 B and 73-77 A+G) are considerably less stout than the 71-76 full-size cars in terms of frame strength and differential capacity.
__________________
My Break Away Squad 1969 Fbird (base OHC, 350, 400HO & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA ht’s) 1969 Custom S 2dr ht 1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr ht & Cvt) 1969 LeMans Safari wagon 1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 ht & Judge ht) 1969 Cat (3 Cvt’s & 2dr ht) 1969 Ventura wagon 2 seat 1969 Exec 4dr post 1969 Bonnie Cvt & 2 wagons 1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr ht & Cvt) 1969 Grand Prix 2 SJ’s 1969 2+2 2dr ht (Canadian) |
#6
|
||||
|
||||
"...I don't plan on towing very much weight, I cant seem to find a tow rating for the car..."
I don't have a clue what the LEGAL tow rating of the car would be. I do know that a decent 400 Pontiac engine will pull a decent size ski or bass boat, with no problem, at all. I pulled both, for 3 years, with my '69 RA3 GTO. Could barely tell it was pulling anything. So, a 455 would have no problem, at all. https://www.gtoforum.com/f12/towing-1967-gto-40421/ Hey, it don't take much power to pull a ski or bass boat. I pulled 'em with a wore out C-10 with a straight six & 3-on-the-tree. Now, if you wanna pull a 2000# car trailer with a 4000# car on board, that's different. My wife's '06 Tacoma has plenty of power to pull it. BUT, it's probably not legal to do so. And, unless I put quite a bit of weight in the bed, it could be dangerous. Without the extra rear end weight, the 6000# car/trailer weight could easily push the rear of the truck around, especially under hard braking & on a wet road. The safest tow vehicle is probably a 1-ton dually. At least that's the way they felt to me. I pulled both 1 & 2 cars to lots of races, with dually trucks. No wrecks or major problems of any kind. But, that's off the subject. We've all probably seen LOTS of pics of Pontiacs pulling other Pontiacs, both with tow bars & on trailers. So, it's been done, for years. Was it always legal ? Probably not. The heavier the trailer load, the more important it is to have good, properly functioning elec trailer brakes. It's always best for the tow vehicle to be heavier than the trailer/load weight. https://goo.gl/images/cDFcc1 Below is the only pic I have which shows the trailer hitch on my '69 GTO. TJ had her horse tied to it, while she saddled up for a ride. My best guess is that this pic was made in '71 or '72. Last edited by ponyakr; 03-27-2019 at 08:13 PM. |
#7
|
||||
|
||||
Don't give the kid any ideas of towing a car!
__________________
1966 GTO 1969 Lemans Convertible- F.A.S.T. legal family cruiser. 12.59 on G70-14 Polyglas tires. 1.78 60' 1969 Bonneville Safari- cross country family cruiser. . 1979 Trans Am 400, 4-speed, 4 wheel disc. View from the drivers seat racing down Atco Raceway- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhYDMdOEC7A Ride along in the other lane-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIzgpLtF_uw |
#8
|
||||
|
||||
Steve Barcak, at Pontiac Heaven, has towed with wagons, A-bodies, and probably other Pontiacs. I think he's a member here. He can probably tell us all about towing with Pontiacs.
http://pontiacheaven.org/61-69_museum.html Last edited by ponyakr; 03-27-2019 at 08:28 PM. |
#9
|
||||
|
||||
The closest factory specs I could find were for 1976. The medium duty towing package was good for 4,000 pounds and was offered on the GP, LeMans and full-size. The HD towing was good for 7,000 pounds and only available with full-size models. My 69 towing brochure shows basically the same packages and ratings.
I can’t find what happened with the downsized big cars in 77 in relation to towing but I’d imagine the HD package rating was continued but perhaps reduced capacity.
__________________
My Break Away Squad 1969 Fbird (base OHC, 350, 400HO & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA ht’s) 1969 Custom S 2dr ht 1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr ht & Cvt) 1969 LeMans Safari wagon 1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 ht & Judge ht) 1969 Cat (3 Cvt’s & 2dr ht) 1969 Ventura wagon 2 seat 1969 Exec 4dr post 1969 Bonnie Cvt & 2 wagons 1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr ht & Cvt) 1969 Grand Prix 2 SJ’s 1969 2+2 2dr ht (Canadian) |
#10
|
||||
|
||||
LOL, OK DAD
I agree, towing anything heavy is not something I'd want my kid doing. Takes experience, starting with towing lighter loads, and LOTS of practice backing up a trailer!!!
__________________
1977 Black Trans Am 180 HP Auto, essentially base model T/A. I'm the original owner, purchased May 7, 1977. Shut it off Shut it off Buddy, I just shut your Prius down... |
#11
|
||||
|
||||
Don't you worry old man, I ain't planning on towing too much. I just need to be able carry my crap around. And maybe a boat or canoe.
I'm not planning on putting too much into towing, I have other projects that I want to pursue.
__________________
2004 GTO 1977 Bonneville Brougham 1977 Bonneville Brougham Parts Car |
#12
|
||||
|
||||
Just my thoughts. Install a mild 455 and you won't need to change the gearing.
I am wondering if your car has the heavy duty brakes? The HD brakes have 12 front rotors, vs the 11 incher light duty's. The rear HD drums are 11 inches, the light drums are 9-1/2 inches. The bolt circle on the HD wheels is 5X5 pattern, LD is 4-3/4X5 pattern. The HD lug studs/nuts are 1/2 inch, the LD are 7/16. The car is either all HD or all LD, there wont be a combination of the two. HD brakes are a good thing when towing. I like your car, still find it strange that a Bonneville got a 350, instead of a 400. Must have been an old timer that thought he was going to save a bunch of $$ getting better MPG... A good friend of mine special ordered a 78 Catalina, to tow his 72 GTO with. Of course it had the 400 engine, 3.23 gear, HD brakes, HD radiator, and maybe other parts for towing. I have the engine in my garage, wish I had bought the car, but it was junk by the mid 90's...
__________________
1977 Black Trans Am 180 HP Auto, essentially base model T/A. I'm the original owner, purchased May 7, 1977. Shut it off Shut it off Buddy, I just shut your Prius down... |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Put some air bags in and maybe a straight axle too.
|
#14
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
The 400 was the top engine option for the B body in 77 and 78 but it was gone in 79.
__________________
My Break Away Squad 1969 Fbird (base OHC, 350, 400HO & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA ht’s) 1969 Custom S 2dr ht 1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr ht & Cvt) 1969 LeMans Safari wagon 1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 ht & Judge ht) 1969 Cat (3 Cvt’s & 2dr ht) 1969 Ventura wagon 2 seat 1969 Exec 4dr post 1969 Bonnie Cvt & 2 wagons 1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr ht & Cvt) 1969 Grand Prix 2 SJ’s 1969 2+2 2dr ht (Canadian) |
#15
|
||||
|
||||
The engine is only part of the consideration . Most engines can get a load moving and keep it moving, but stability on the road and STOPPING is most important. You say you won't be towing much weight...but how much? I used tow tow a 17 foot boat & ourboard with a stock 1/2 ton 77 Chevy Van inline 6 and 3 on the tree. No problems and I hardly knew it was back there. I also used tow tow a 5000lb T-Bird in an enclosed 24 foot trailer and other incidentals (about 10,000 lbs) with an 89 Suburban 3/4 ton 454 and heavy duty towing package and weight distributing hitch. It needed the trailer brakes properly adjusted of room to stop. I would think your 77 in stock form can tow something similar in weight to my 17 foot boat with no issues...even with the 350. Just make sure your brakes are sound and your tires are good and properly inflated.
|
#16
|
|||
|
|||
And lets not forget the tires. You cannot safely tow much weight on load range "B" tires. Passenger car tires are a "P" tire which is a load range "B". Tires are the main reason why people who tow with cars lose it.
|
#17
|
||||
|
||||
For the entire '73 racing season, I pulled my '69 GTO to the track with a tow bar & a '68 4-door Caddy. Bought the Caddy for dual purpose tow vehicle/daily driver.
I suppose the reason the Caddy made such a good tow vehicle was because of it's 472 engine, and the fact that it probably weighed at least a thousand lbs more than the Goat. I'd tow with well used street tires, then change to drag tires at the track. Began with a scissor jack I borrowed from my Dad. Wrote IN-TOW on the back windshield, with white shoe polish. Hey, you gotta start somewhere. Last edited by ponyakr; 03-29-2019 at 11:29 AM. |
#18
|
||||
|
||||
The car does have the Heavy Duty package with the 5x5 pattern. I was kind of disappointed when I found that out because I cant throw the set drag radials on at the strip. It doesn't bother me any more and we still have extra wheels from the 69 Bonneville may dad sold. The current gearing in it is good for highway cursing but I don't do too much of that now that I have another car. I already have a complete rear end with 3.23 gears and a posi, so it wont take much for me to change to lower gearing.
Honestly I don't plan on towing more than a small boat for fishing or an engine or car parts. I just need some way to transport my own things and my parents weren't too happy when I asked if they would let me buy a pickup as a fourth vehicle. They're giving me a hard time about having three. Just out of curiosity, how difficult would it be to tow a car like my 04 gto? I have no plans of doing this, but I am curious.
__________________
2004 GTO 1977 Bonneville Brougham 1977 Bonneville Brougham Parts Car |
#19
|
||||
|
||||
Chiefs comments about tires is something to strongly keep in your thoughts, regardless of what you tow...
I'm 60 years old, and I don't talk to my family members about how many vehicles I have (5), any more... My Dad questioned me about all my vehicles and garage full of junk...I do stuff that I enjoy. LOL 3 of my vehicles ARE pickups. Not sure it's possible to live in Oklahoma and not own at least one pickup... Your Bonne could handle the 04 GTO, but very carefully. The GTO is a heavy vehicle... My late buddy that bought the 78 Catalina new, towed his GTO from New Jersey to Iowa, in 1980, when he bought the GTO. Wasn't the best trip, BUT he was experienced at towing... Put the 455 in the Bonneville with 3.23 gears, you could be a young Jim Hand!!! Set the world on fire with another sleeper. There have been a couple of cars like yours in my part of the country that ran 12's and 13's at Pontiac events, very cool!!!
__________________
1977 Black Trans Am 180 HP Auto, essentially base model T/A. I'm the original owner, purchased May 7, 1977. Shut it off Shut it off Buddy, I just shut your Prius down... |
#20
|
||||
|
||||
I have towed my single open car trailer with my 69 Firebird on it many times, both with my old 78 Impala Wagon, 350 sbc 3.08 gears, and our 78 Catalina Safari 400 Pontiac 2.73 rear gears, with no issues, but my hitch does have anti sway bars, and I make sure I run Light truck tires that are rated for the load. My trailer weighs 1800 lbs & the Firebird weighs 3300 lbs for a total of 5100 lbs. I do have air bags in the rear coils.
And yes the 78-90 B-body frames are basically modified 73-77 A or G Body frames, and many parts swap between the 2, but the 1980-1990 frames are lightened quite a bit compared to the 77-79 frames so I would question how much they can tow. I do have a 1978 Catalina/Bonneville towing brochure some were at home I will post some pictures of the ratings if I can find it. I seem to remember with the HD Towing package it was rated at over 5500lbs but I think that includes the weight of any load in the car also, so yourself, any passengers ect....
__________________
Jeff R 60 Jaguar Mark 2, 3.8L Automatic 67 Sprint Firebird 230 OHC-6 4-Speed A/C 78 Catlina Safari, Pontiac 400 powered 77 Astre Formula, 215 Buick V-8 T-5 73 Lemans Safari, 400 4bbl 4-speed 71 Catalina Enforcer, 455 4bbl 06 Mallet Solstice #024 LS2, Now with a Tremec 6060 6-speed! 2012 F-150 Echo Boost (My local Ford Dealer SUX!!!) 2020 Dodge Charger Scat pack (recovered) |
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|