[unruhjonny]

the blue looking to be a 1970 interior blue is a good point, and Aus' is correct that you canont used GM literature as a sole means of verifying this - which is why I quoted the first post I found in a quick search for owners reporting this.

I hope no one missed that my first post about the black ball was in direct reply to a '70 query, after which point I did say that this knob was installed in some early 1971 model year cars - I never said this was THE knob to use in 1971 Trans Am's, just that some early cars had them.

I am confident others here have records of what cars had what, which could lead to an approximate change over date from the "1970" black ball, to the "1971" simulated leather.

As a counter-point, I have with one member in specific, unintentionally got into a back and forth when he was adamant that his 1970 TA originally had the 1971+ knob.... he was only citing that it looked old, and appeared to be correct for his car - therefore it was the original knob...
IIRC he did eventually come around...

Originally Posted by Secondgenaddict

Thanks for all the replys, I wish I asked this question before I paid for a nos leather knob.

Do you mind sharing a picture of this knob?

Unless someone chimes in with proof that your car's build date should positively have the black ball style, I don't think it was money poorly spent.

Originally Posted by necdb3

That can't be an original picture from a 71 brochure. Look at the wiper/ lights section of the bezel. That's later model.

Here's a link to the whole brochure:
http://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/pon...re/71fire.html
Here is the page before:
http://www.lov2xlr8.no/pontiac.html

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Judge273

It's all interesting that only one guy has a black ball in a 8/70 build 71 TA...

I could say the same thing about my first car when I was 16. A 71 GTO 4 speed had a hurst T handle on it when I bought it. Thinking how cool Pontiac put a Judge T handle on my car.

Until I found the black ball in glove box...

I believe the oversized black ball handle was used in the GTO/Lemans/Grand Am through to 1974;
I also have read that this was a period accessory item that many dealers had on hand to sell outright, or that were put into cars to help a sale.

[Norwood]

Yes sir I bet alot of people were buying car because of the black ball. You can’t make this stuff up.

[unruhjonny]

no... I meant to convey that the 'T' handle reads to have been an incentive item.

You're funny.

[FASTASSBIRD]

Originally Posted by starlightblack

It very well may be a '70 , but that right there reflected in the rear view mirror glass is a '71 seat top, not a 1970 headrest.

Thick lip shaker too


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[giles]

Originally Posted by Aus78Formula

Brochures and literature are also well-known for featuring incorrect details in the photos of cars with options not available. Interesting to compare but they don't really resolve much.

Yes! Brochures were made using photos of pilot cars. In normal model runs pilots were built in March/April ahead of the late July changeover. I believe this is true for ‘71 F-cars (‘70 F pilot was late - like November ‘69). And no I would not trust brochures as 100% accurate because the cars themselves were not 100% representative of regular production. Pilots were used because the brochures had to created, printed and in the dealer on announcement day.

[Uncle Judge]

Originally Posted by Peter Serio

I have 3 old paper photographs of a very low miles original blue 70 Trans Am. It has a tan standard interior and no console. That car has the large black plastic ball on the shifter. The guy who sent me the photos (pre-internet) days. Said the car was very original, so much so that I recall during a phone conversation he was lamenting about the hood locks that the first owner had installed into the hood. They were those nicer chrome flush mounted ones (one lock per side) that took a key that was the same kind of a key that was used on a an older soda machine.
The current owner did not like the hood locks but he did not want to remove the hood and fill those holes as then the hood would have to be repainted and perhaps the center stripe sticker replaced..

He told me that the car was like 95 to 97% original paint. Blue, white stripe tan non-deluxe interior.

Thinking back I probably received these photos in the mail sometime in the mid to late 1990s. I kept them because even back then the white with the blue stripe Trans am was the one you always saw at the car shows. Uncommon, at least for me, to see a blue one for 70 or 71. More so the blue with the tan interior. Most of the ones I remember had a black or a blue interior. Although a friend of mine has a White/ blue stripe '72 Trans Am that has the blue or black dash and carpet with the white deluxe seats.

Funny Pete. That was my 1970 Trans Am with 36,000 miles and all original paint with the saddle interior. GOOD MEMORY PETE! I likely had that converstation with you but it could have been the 2nd owner. I bought that car in 1996 from him. I'd still have the car today but the original owner's son who came home from the hospital in it when he was born called me on a monthly basis for a LONG time. I guess it belonged back in the family. I owned it for about 12 years.

My theory on the LARGE black ball VS. the simulated leather knob is that it is dictated by the interior. Plain and simple. The LARGE Black ball came with the standard interior and simulated leather knob came with the Deluxe interior.
This has played out to be true on several low mile original 1970-71 Trans Am's that I have personally owned.

I also feel that the red insert on the simulated knob is pre-production thing and MAYBE an EXTREMELY EARLY production item. They just ended up using the red insert from the custom wood knob in 1969 on the 1970 pre-production simulated leather deluxe Firebird knob.

I suspect this was just like the 1970 red Pontiac crest on the Formula wheel center cap in a GTO or Judge. It is shown in the Performance brochure but rarely seen in production vehicles.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Uncle Judge

...
My theory on the LARGE black ball VS. the simulated leather knob is that it is dictated by the interior. Plain and simple. The LARGE Black ball came with the standard interior and simulated leather knob came with the Deluxe interior.
...

Respectfully;
So this theory of yours is Trans Am specific?

I would think that if an interior trim level dictated the knob used, that this would not be predicated by the model.

I would think that if your theory could stand on two legs, that the knob used would not be predicated by the model and interior trim level - but rather wholly by the trim level.

Formulas came with 'standard' interior just like the Trans Am;
Esprit's came with the 'deluxe' interior, unlike the Trans Am;
If your assertion is true, and not dictated by the model, I would think the leather knob would always be observed in the Esprit, and also seen in 'deluxe' interior Formulas.

From the ultra low-mile '70 Formula:



I have seen the early simulated wood knob on a '70 Esprit (I have the whole shifter assembly still), but I cannot recall seeing the simulated leather knob in any '70 Esprit.

My personal belief is that the simulated leather knob may very well have been intended for deluxe interior vehicles, but as the early supply ran out, the black knob was used on all;
Then the black knob supply at both Norwood and Van Nuys was used up, the leather knob supplanted it as the only one used.

I would be curious to know at what point the shifter knob was installed, and when the last documented example of a car with the simulated versus the first example with the black knob were built.
To the best of my understanding this cannot be gleaned from the build sheet.

[Uncle Judge]

Yes Johnny. All I can speak to is my experience with 1970 and 1971 Trans Am’s. These are the only documented low mile cars that I can vouch for since I knew the history and owned those cars.
I have not owned any Low mile documented Formulas.
I do somewhat recall several things being questioned on that particular low mile Formula that you are referring to but who knows if anything was ever changed on it?
Again, this is my theory and experience. I’m Not saying that anything is 100%.

Your supplier theory is certainly plausible. Maybe not intended but LOTS of things happened based on stock availability on the plant assembly lines.

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[unruhjonny]

(sorry for the edits )

[weranc55]

Jeff my 70 survivor March built car has the the large black ball and deluxe int. My June built survivor has standard int and the sim leather ball.

[Uncle Judge]

Originally Posted by weranc55

Jeff my 70 survivor March built car has the the large black ball and deluxe int. My June built survivor has standard int and the sim leather ball.

Well Chuck one of your peeps must have swapped some stuff around when ya weren’t lookin!
Who knows? That’s why I said it was just my theory based on what I personally have owned and seen on low mile original T/A’s. That’s why I say never say always or never!
I actually kind of thought that your march car could’ve been one with leatherette and a red insert!
What do I know? I’m never posting again. LOL

[Transamric]

Another vote here for black ball on my one family owner, May 25th built Van Nuys TA with Custom interior.

My 2cents worth of input here,...most original Van Nuys '70's I've seen had the black ball while most Norwood seemed to get the sim. leather knob, regardless of interior trim.

[keith k]

Originally Posted by Uncle Judge

Funny Pete. That was my 1970 Trans Am with 36,000 miles and all original paint with the saddle interior. GOOD MEMORY PETE! I likely had that converstation with you but it could have been the 2nd owner. I bought that car in 1996 from him. I'd still have the car today but the original owner's son who came home from the hospital in it when he was born called me on a monthly basis for a LONG time. I guess it belonged back in the family. I owned it for about 12 years.

My theory on the LARGE black ball VS. the simulated leather knob is that it is dictated by the interior. Plain and simple. The LARGE Black ball came with the standard interior and simulated leather knob came with the Deluxe interior.
This has played out to be true on several low mile original 1970-71 Trans Am's that I have personally owned.

I also feel that the red insert on the simulated knob is pre-production thing and MAYBE an EXTREMELY EARLY production item. They just ended up using the red insert from the custom wood knob in 1969 on the 1970 pre-production simulated leather deluxe Firebird knob.

I suspect this was just like the 1970 red Pontiac crest on the Formula wheel center cap in a GTO or Judge. It is shown in the Performance brochure but rarely seen in production vehicles.

Sounds like a car I looked at, and thought hard about buying..., in the mid/late '90s. It was for sale in Illinois. Couldn't be many Blue/Saddle/4-speed low mile cars around!

[Tellyshavilli]

All the 70 Trans Ams I’ve owned whether their standard or deluxe interior have had the blackball on shifter

[Ram4TA]

I've had a few 1 owner 4 speed 70 T/A's they all had the large black ball also std or dlx interior.