[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Curious if you mapped out your timing curve?

More initial, and less in the dizzy/total may clear up you spark knock issue, and increase low end torque. Some more fuel also.
If your around 10:1, your in the right range compression wise for aluminum heads and should be able to tune for 93 pump gas. Also may need to limit amount of vacuum advance and tune where it comes in.

What you have and where the knock is (assuming light load low rpm tip in).... If it knocks wide open, you may be after much more than a cam on your next parts order.

Every one is trying to help you get it humming, don't take the advice as insults.... A lot of good experience to draw from here.

Like a hot body...if it came in a box everyone would have one.



I understand and will consider this closed if your done trying to get it better with what you got.

[pastry_chef]

Having tuned at least 3 E carbs with performance cams, one with a wideband. The factory calibration isn't going to cut it.

Originally Posted by STEELCITYFIREBIRD

you may be after much more than a cam on your next parts order.

I see this as well.

[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by STEELCITYFIREBIRD

Curious if you mapped out your timing curve?

More initial, and less in the dizzy may clear up you spark knock issue, and increase low end torque. Some more fuel also.
If your around 10:1, your in the right range compression wise for aluminum heads and should be able to tune for 93 pump gas. Also may need to limit amount of vacuum advance and tune where it comes in.

What you have and where the knock is (assuming light load low rpm tip in).... If it knocks wide open, you may be after more than a cam on your next parts order.

Every one is trying to help you get it humming, don't take the advice as insults.... A lot of experience to draw from here.

Yes, a little less advance and it will spark knock less. I wanted it advanced to get the whole big cam experience.

The tick is lifters. If it's something else then I will be fixing something else some day, of course, doesn't that go without saying?

Looking back, the only comments that really helped at all mostly came from Clay.

Not saying that others weren't trying to help, their comments didn't help. Mostly condescending.

You helped me make sure my pushrods were the right length, thanks.

There's a lot of 'noise' around here that's not very positive. Sorry folks are not happy. Glad I have a life that keeps me positive and moving forward.

[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by pastry_chef

Having tuned at least 3 E carbs with performance cams, one with a wideband. The factory calibration isn't going to cut it.




I see this as well.

Thanks for that negative response. Maybe you should think about why you post here. If you aren't posting to help then you are posting for the wrong reasons.

[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

Are you still doing the 1/2 turn on the preload?

Not enough is not enough. Most any brand lifter is going to have some tick that moves around if it doesn't have enough preload.

When you hear lifter tick, especially moving around or coming and going, this tells you valve open or close is changing around. No one cylinder will fire with the same umph every time if valve events are changing. On a scale of one to ten...Tuning requirements would be eleven plus. Or possibly require some state of de-tune to make cylinders hit weaker?

Best I can tell, the 703 cam only has 53° of overlap. That's mildish stock cam range. Should be able to get it running "fairly" smooth at low rpm's. Now if you're wanting to lug along in high gear at idle speed...should've got the original cam running right because that's what it was designed for.

Get valves adjusted "RIGHT" and forget generic fit-um-all directions.

Get a timing light so you can fine tune the engine. It's not just for setting initial timing. You can use it to watch the advance curve and see what's really going on. Can't do that by ear.

Get a good vacuum gauge and learn how to use it. That's old school tuning that does still work today.

Clay

I listened to your advice and tried a whole turn on the last adjustment. Nothing changed. It didn't tick with the lifters I took out. It does with these.
At some point you have to think it's the lifters.
If it doesn't tick with the new ones then we will know it was the lifters and not the adjustment.

[455GRIN]

So you have a QJet from Cliff on another car? I would swap that QJet on this car so to see how it acts. As much as you like to change parts, it would be no big deal and cost nothing. Or just get another QJet from Cliff set up for this combo.

[Stan Weiss]

Yes, a little less advance and it will spark knock less. I wanted it advanced to get the whole big cam experience.

Maybe you should think about why you post here.

If you aren't willing to listen to the posters for help then you are posting for the wrong reasons.

From my standpoint I think it is time to just seat back and which how this all plays out.

Stan

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by TAQuest

Dough dude,

Don't think he read the whole thread or the follow up thread after the engine got put in the car. I'm not going back to read all of both...But seems like there was 10° difference in where to set total timing. That's from where it made peak HP to being able to drive it on the street. Those reverse dyno pull numbers also dont tell us how hard the engine was bucking and jumping like it would on the street with a stick shift.

Engine also went in an automatic car with a 3,000ish rpm stall converter. That makes me think twice about how "useable" that low rpm power really was.

About got sea sick watching the 302 video when he was lugging the engine around. Smoothed up a bunch when he actually drove it like them little engines were made to be drove.

The china HEI I've got here was a gimme. I did not buy it.
Centrifugal advance is slow with strong springs and very limited on how far it does advance. Engine tuned to scream has initial timing way too high for it to run smooth at low RPM's. If you just crack the throttle and vacuum advance comes in....Shouldn't need explaining. Pretty much useless for a stick shift street car with an engine like your's. At least how they come out of the box.

Do believe with some distributor work and fine tuning you could get this thing doing better.
Total cure with the Voodoo cam that builds higher cylinder pressure, in an engine that's already got high static compression. Still gonna feel every cylinder hit at low rpm's.

Got more but need coffee
Clay

[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

Don't think he read the whole thread or the follow up thread after the engine got put in the car. I'm not going back to read all of both...But seems like there was 10° difference in where to set total timing. That's from where it made peak HP to being able to drive it on the street. Those reverse dyno pull numbers also dont tell us how hard the engine was bucking and jumping like it would on the street with a stick shift.

Engine also went in an automatic car with a 3,000ish rpm stall converter. That makes me think twice about how "useable" that low rpm power really was.

About got sea sick watching the 302 video when he was lugging the engine around. Smoothed up a bunch when he actually drove it like them little engines were made to be drove.

The china HEI I've got here was a gimme. I did not buy it.
Centrifugal advance is slow with strong springs and very limited on how far it does advance. Engine tuned to scream has initial timing way too high for it to run smooth at low RPM's. If you just crack the throttle and vacuum advance comes in....Shouldn't need explaining. Pretty much useless for a stick shift street car with an engine like your's. At least how they come out of the box.

Do believe with some distributor work and fine tuning you could get this thing doing better.
Total cure with the Voodoo cam that builds higher cylinder pressure, in an engine that's already got high static compression. Still gonna feel every cylinder hit at low rpm's.

Got more but need coffee
Clay

Thanks Clay. I'm using a Proform HEI. I'm sure I could spend some time tuning it to lower the power range. If I was stuck with this cam I would have to do that. I'm going to start with a cam that targets the power range I want and then tune that.

When I first came here with my build receipts a lot of folks said 'itty bitty cam'. Or, 'no one with these heads runs a cam that small'.
So I listened and tried a bigger cam. Now I'm going to use a cam that targets the usage of the car. Not what everyone else with these heads uses.
I think the guy who made the build plans in the first place was spot on. He just made a mistake lining up the dots.
So I went and saw what a big cam was all about. Now I'm going to be more practical and follow what the cam selection instructions say when applying them to what you use the car for.
Wouldn't be the first time someone made a mistake and got too big a cam for what they use the car for. I'm just quick to admit my mistake and move forward.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by TAQuest

A 302? Whaaaat? Who cares? Sounds like you have the wrong cam and tried to tune it to that. Cams are cheap and easy. They allow you to choose your power band. I picked the wrong cam so I'm going to use a different one.
Pretty simple thing. And with some lifter noise it's an easy choice for me and my car.

Just like I figured, you're missing the point, and part of the reason I bailed on your last thread. It's not the wrong cam, it's the factory cam. The engines were designed this way on purpose. The point of the video is to show you and others that these things can in fact be tuned to be docile enough on the street and don't exhibit the characteristics that everyone complains about if you know what you're doing.

When I, and others here, say it needs more tuning, we are talking about getting more in depth than just your simple setting idle mixtures and shutting the hood. That's not tuning. Like I mentioned earlier if you cared to read, you will need to get way more in depth with the carb than that.

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

About got sea sick watching the 302 video when he was lugging the engine around.

I seemed to miss that part, will watch the video again later.
Maybe people are just used to different things.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Maybe you should think about why you post here.

If you aren't willing to listen to the posters for help then you are posting for the wrong reasons.

From my standpoint I think it is time to just seat back and which how this all plays out.

Stan

Don't worry about it Stan. He had the same attitude in the last thread and didn't listen to a lot of great advice which is why I did what you're suggesting. Hard to help someone that doesn't want to degree a cam and doesn't have a timing tab to set the timing correctly, and then says he knows how to tune and knows what he's doing He hasn't been around here that long and doesn't understand some of the knowledge floating around here. All good advice and no one was out of line at anytime that I read, so take it with a grain of salt.
Maybe he'll get it figured out if he just keeps throwing enough money at it.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

About got sea sick watching the 302 video when he was lugging the engine around. Smoothed up a bunch when he actually drove it like them little engines were made to be drove.

Clay

That's not what you are seeing. Trust me. The engine is smooth everywhere. The roads unfortunately are rough around here. I have to drive several miles to civilization plus it's downright impossible to hold the camera still when it's resting on myself, so likely what you are seeing is just me moving around in the seat. It clearly shows these big cam engines are perfectly fine at low rpm if you know how to tune these things. Listening to the engine is what should be paid most attention to, not so much the video.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

So what did the first cam turn out to be?
Looked back thru the other thread and still unclear.

[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

When I, and others here, say it needs more tuning, we are talking about getting more in depth than just your simple setting idle mixtures and shutting the hood. That's not tuning. Like I mentioned earlier if you cared to read, you will need to get way more in depth with the carb than that.

I will not have to get way more in depth with tuning with the right cam. I know that from experience.

[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by STEELCITYFIREBIRD

So what did the first cam turn out to be?
Looked back thru the other thread and still unclear.

It's the one on the receipt from the build. 2157

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by TAQuest

I will not have to get way more in depth with tuning with a smaller cam. I know that from experience.

I fixed it for you

[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

He hasn't been around here that long

Yup. Not long. Since 2005. Most of my experience was back in 70's, 80's and 90's before I joined here. Won trophies at the Motorplex running my Pontiacs. I probably forgot more than you know. Been fixing presses and other industrial machines for a long time and I'm just getting back in the swing with these toys.
They are very simple machines.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by TAQuest

Yup. Not long. Since 2005. Most of my experience was back in 70's, 80's and 90's before I joined here. Won trophies at the Motorplex running my Pontiacs. I probably forgot more than you know. Been fixing presses and other industrial machines for a long time and I'm just getting back in the swing with these toys.
They are very simple machines.

So now we are chest beating?

[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

So now we are chest beating?

I would rather talk about cars. But your drama queenness wants to talk about me. I'm just answering your posts. Done with that.