[Va68goat]

HWYSTR455,
Advanced and initial timing was sent a couple of days ago. You weren't here for that but the title in the video say where it was timed. The motor didn't seem too happy with 12 initial. It was moved around and the knocking was consistent. When you were at the house timing the motor, the idle was set way too high and the knocking noise was masked with the noise of the engine. The car has been timed by plenty of guys that have experience and the same knocking noise was present.

grivera,
A name or a time was not given to me.

Formulajones,
Nobody has touched the curve of the distributor. I don't know want to speak a bunch a nonsense because we all know I'm new to cars. The timing, both initial and advance have been tweaked but the same knocking noise is consistent. We switched out distributors and plug wires, timed it and the noise was still present. I thought I was pretty clear when I mentioned the compression test. Here is my exact quote "We did a compression test yesterday as well but before I post that, we want to verify with another gauge. The results were low but again, I don't want to post inaccurate information". Quoting the numbers and how the test was performed would just put this thread in another direction. Only makes sense to post the known facts. The things that you believe are known by Paul are irrelevant here. I don't know crap about motors but everyone is getting the information from me or guys that have worked on the car. Unless you were there with Paul building my motor, (Both times) you're the one at a dead end. I'm sure Paul reads this thread 3 times a day. He's a big boy, he can comment. Posting your thoughts on what Paul knows is like me posting the compression numbers without being certain. Since you're obviously talking to Paul, tell him to post the video of my motor running at idle from outside the booth. I'm sure a lot of forum members would like to see that!

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

HWYSTR455,

Formulajones,
Nobody has touched the curve of the distributor. I don't know want to speak a bunch a nonsense because we all know I'm new to cars. The timing, both initial and advance have been tweaked but the same knocking noise is consistent. We switched out distributors and plug wires, timed it and the noise was still present. I thought I was pretty clear when I mentioned the compression test. Here is my exact quote "We did a compression test yesterday as well but before I post that, we want to verify with another gauge. The results were low but again, I don't want to post inaccurate information". Quoting the numbers and how the test was performed would just put this thread in another direction. Only makes sense to post the known facts. The things that you believe are known by Paul are irrelevant here. I don't know crap about motors but everyone is getting the information from me or guys that have worked on the car. Unless you were there with Paul building my motor, (Both times) you're the one at a dead end. I'm sure Paul reads this thread 3 times a day. He's a big boy, he can comment. Posting your thoughts on what Paul knows is like me posting the compression numbers without being certain. Since you're obviously talking to Paul, tell him to post the video of my motor running at idle from outside the booth. I'm sure a lot of forum members would like to see that!

Posting that the numbers were low without posting numbers doesn't tell anyone anything. Low is an irrelevant term and means different things to different people. If you want honest answers and proper help, then posting the information you say you found is the only way you'll get that. Generally the numbers are written down as you go along and perform the test. If you don't have that information obviously someone does....lets post it. Otherwise it's meaningless and leads us in no direction what so ever. I understand if you're uncertain and don't want to misinform, that's fine. But a follow up with numbers would be appropriate so everyone else doesn't start going down another dark hole.

Paul is pretty much done with this thread thanks to the way he's been treated.
I can tell you I've been there and done that. I doubt Paul would have idle video standing right next to the engine because that's just generally not how that deal is done. You stand there and make preliminary adjustments, that's about it, you jump in the other room. You don't stand right there next to the engine when pulls are made and we for sure don't have 4 arms to hold cameras and make adjustments. He's also not the one operating the dyno so he's not calling the shots. You set your carb and timing, make your pull and shut it down. Any shots of the engine idling would be done from the dyno room where the engine is fired off, that's how it was done when I was there.
If Paul says it didn't make noise on the dyno, then it didn't make noise. He cut the oil filter open and found nothing, He pulled your distributor just to double check the bushing was okay, he found nothing wrong. It was a healthy engine when it left the shop. And for those that aren't aware, the flexplate is not used on the dyno.
I think when you guys calm down and come to your senses and stop pointing fingers and worrying about finding someone to blame, you might realize that something changes once the engine is in the car and maybe concentrate on those areas, you'll find the cause. At the very least cut the filter open again and see what it looks like.

[Va68goat]

Formulajones,
Call me crazy but I still hear the knocking noise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMobO8gjSaE

Prior to me getting the motor back, Paul spoke with the guys that worked on the motor and he cosigned everything that was done. There were experienced hands in Arizona that touched the motor and there were experienced hands that touched it here.....same knocking noise. Of course you're going to grab at the one guy that believes the knocking noise is lessened with more rpm...all the other guys that have spent more time with motor disagree. I'm at a disadvantage because I just don't know anything about motors....but my hearing is good!

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Formulajones,
Call me crazy but I still hear the knocking noise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMobO8gjSaE

Of course you're going to grab at the one guy that believes the knocking noise is lessened with more rpm..(And less initial timing) .!

That's because he's actually the first guy that has attempted to try what I've been saying for weeks and finally found a difference in something.

[68 461 Bird]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Prior to me getting the motor back, Paul spoke with the guys that worked on the motor and he cosigned everything that was done.

So he actually farmed it out to someone else?

[MidnightAuto]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kj-ItGxqywo

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

HWYSTR455,
Advanced and initial timing was sent a couple of days ago. You weren't here for that but the title in the video say where it was timed. The motor didn't seem too happy with 12 initial. It was moved around and the knocking was consistent. When you were at the house timing the motor, the idle was set way too high and the knocking noise was masked with the noise of the engine. The car has been timed by plenty of guys that have experience and the same knocking noise was present.

Ok, you can't set initial and total without changing the bushing in the distributor, period. Just need to point that out. When I checked the timing last it was at 1000 rpm, I blipped the throttle a little to make sure the timing wasn't varying, so was pretty confident initial was 12.

What's initial at now?

You say the engine wasn't happy at 12 initial? What were the symptoms that made that determination? I'm curious.

.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Ok, you can't set initial and total without changing the bushing in the distributor, period. Just need to point that out. When I checked the timing last it was at 1000 rpm, I blipped the throttle a little to make sure the timing wasn't varying, so was pretty confident initial was 12.

What's initial at now?

You say the engine wasn't happy at 12 initial? What were the symptoms that made that determination? I'm curious.

.

I'm with ya Highway.

Now that I know the distributor has the black bushing, (key information) that is the biggest bushing that MSD supplies. To get 34 total all in you are likely going to end up with at least 16 initial.

More than likely you'll have to swap the bushing for one of the smaller ones so you can keep the initial lower and still have your 34 total. If it didn't like 12 degrees then some other adjustments and tuning might need to be done. Idling at 1,000 doesn't sound low at all for an engine with that size camshaft. In gear if it dropped to 800-850 I'd say you're doing pretty good. Then dial in the vacuum for about 10-12 degrees for a little better idle quality (manifold) and you'll have to decide whether you want ported or manifold vacuum

Process of elimination.

Problem I see is there are so many guys with there hands on this thing, once something is set, it's changed again by someone else and so on and so forth. I don't know how you guys are going to get anywhere with that.

[Va68goat]

Maybe someone can look at the cam and see if there is something unusual. I don't know what I'm looking at. I also added a picture of the motor on the dyno the first time with no mufflers. Could a knocking noise be heard if it's set up like this? I'm assuming it was set up like this each time.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Ok, you can't set initial and total without changing the bushing in the distributor, period. Just need to point that out. When I checked the timing last it was at 1000 rpm, I blipped the throttle a little to make sure the timing wasn't varying, so was pretty confident initial was 12.

What's initial at now?

You say the engine wasn't happy at 12 initial? What were the symptoms that made that determination? I'm curious.

.

32° total @ 3,500 rpm's. 15° initial.

That goes right with your earlier post on total and distributor advance.
34°-18°=16°
Should be golden and plenty safe enough for a pump gas street engine.

Clay

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

32° total @ 3,500 rpm's. 15° initial.

That goes right with your earlier post on total and distributor advance.
34°-18°=16°
Should be golden and plenty safe enough for a pump gas street engine.

Clay

That's assuming it's fully advanced at 3500 rpm. That depends on the springs, and total may not come all in until say, 4000, or even 4500. If that were the case, for example, IF at 3500 you only have 15 degrees, add 3 more degrees to that 16 initial.

When I first got there on the day I visited, the rotor was at least half way between the #1 post on the cap and the #8. It had to have been like 15-20 initial, if not more.

Anyway, my original point was, you set initial timing at idle, and not just set max/total and let initial fall where it may. THEN you rev it up and make sure it's not exceeding the max target timing. But in this case, it's pretty clear that since it has the 18 degree bushing, total is not going to be off by much.

EDIT: When I say 15-20 degrees, I mean 15-20 degrees ABOVE the 12 initial.

.

[Va68goat]

tom s,
Uh oh...I'll do my best. The rockers are 1.65 Crowers. I don't think anyone can answer a dyno question except Paul but I'll do my best!

[Formulajones]

I agree Clay that is generally a safe starting point. Some of these engines however sometimes don't want or need a bunch of initial timing. Since this has modern combustion chambers and tight quench, and enough compression to support the camshaft, it's probably pretty efficient and may not need that much initial.

The fact that Highway knocked it down to 12 and set the idle at a normal setting and stated the noise was somewhat subsided tells me he was likely heading in the right direction and is what I mentioned should have been done about 10 pages ago LOL