[Red Box Rebel]

Do not like what happened to a Collectible vintage Pontiac in Lincoln, NE. But, that is capitalism.
I have been to Saudi Arabia and there is a demand for American Muscle cars. I was also amazed at how many Crown Vics were running the roads everywhere.

If you have a Classic Pontiac, keep it, repair, restore and keep it for your grand kids.

But, if you want to sell, I have no problem with you getting top dollar regardless of the buyer and where the car will end up.

We are all guilty of making the prices higher by keeping a rather large inventory of quality cars in very good condition. How else would AMES, Year One, OPG and the rest of the industry survive without all of us buying parts for old cars?

The market will be the place that will ultimately determine the price of your classic Pontiac. The RAMC boys are either very smart investors, or will lose their shirts. Let the market decide.

[Shift'n Gears]

I'm all for capitalism, but what is going on isn't capitalism. RAMC has for years artificially inflating prices. Each car they sell, the price tag they hang on the next car is higher than the one before. Not because the car is more rare or better restored, but because they are intentionally driving higher profits. Look at their website and they are asking more for a project car today than a restored car cost just 10-15 years ago.

Like you mention they are now in risk of "loosing their shirt" because of the artificial prices they have created. Which is why they are taking cars to Saudi Arabia where oil money knows no limits.

So why should the hobbyists, and vendors like Ames, NPD, Firebird Central, and Classic industries care if RAMC artificially drives up prices and ships cars over seas never to be seen again?

10 years ago if you went to one of the big national Pontiac or T/A cars shows, it was not uncommon to see 15-18 SD's. Plus, RAIII's, 455HO's, and bandits were plentiful and an occasional RAIV could be seen. This past year there was only 4 SD's at the one show I went to and 1 SD at the other show I attended.

Shipping cars over seas and preventing hobbyists from owning classic Pontiacs are two red flags that our hobby may not be as healthy as it once was. Plus, if hobbyists aren't driving them and restoring them who is buying the parts?

[Formulajones]

An eye opener for me recently with Saudi Arabia happened where my son attends college. There is a student from Saudi attending classes there. I was in the parking lot with our 69 Z and he approached me. Asked if it was for sale. My first thought was "a college student can't afford these things" but then during the conversation he stated he was looking for all kinds of muscle cars and sending info to his people in Saudi, where they would then purchase them and ship them home, and he stated his people specifically were looking for more 1st gen Z/28's. He also tried to purchase my sons fox body mustang.
Nice fellow and very polite, but it occurred to me this isn't just happening in auction houses, they have scouts everywhere, lol.

[starlightblack]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

An eye opener for me recently with Saudi Arabia happened where my son attends college. There is a student from Saudi attending classes there. I was in the parking lot with our 69 Z and he approached me. Asked if it was for sale. My first thought was "a college student can't afford these things" but then during the conversation he stated he was looking for all kinds of muscle cars and sending info to his people in Saudi, where they would then purchase them and ship them home, and he stated his people specifically were looking for more 1st gen Z/28's. He also tried to purchase my sons fox body mustang.
Nice fellow and very polite, but it occurred to me this isn't just happening in auction houses, they have scouts everywhere, lol.

American Muscle isn' t just enjoyed by Americans :)

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by starlightblack

American Muscle isn' t just enjoyed by Americans :)

That's a given, as we see this at auction houses everywhere. Point was that a college student being a scout for cars while he's in the country taking classes and sending info back to Saudi Arabia is kind of taking things to another level.

[TCSGTO]

Classic car auctions in general have artificially pushed up the prices of old cars beyond what they would normally be valued at. Almost every price guide and classic car stealership uses major auction prices to determine values. It no secret shill bidding is rampant at these things. The individuals running the auction houses have been known to run their own cars across the block, get the bids up, then put it back on the trailer and haul it to their next show, rinse and repeat. In any other investment field that would be not only immoral but illegal.