[Tom Vaught]

ECOBOOST is a generic term for a Ford engine with a Turbocharged Engine under the hood. Ford has done 3.5L engines, 2.7L engines, 2.3L (4 cylinder) engines for many years now. I drive a 2019 Ecoboost F-150 Truck with the 10 speed trans.

Did a basic search on the timing chain issues and some have 100K on their engines with no issues reported. Some other F-150 Forum guys have swapped FEAD parts on their engines as well as "played with things" and they have had timing chain issues on the 2011 to early 2014 engines.

Like I said I drive an April built 2019 truck. My early 2016 Ecoboost F-150 ran great. One of the best trucks I ever owned. Not one issue with the truck.

Not saying that the Camshafts are not applying a massive load on the chains.
The Fuel Pump driven by the timing Chains/Camshaft applies a load on the timing chains.
And a lot of the engines repaired were high mileage engines.

Seems to me that I was replacing a LOT of TIMING CHAINS and Nylon Upper Timing Gears and a metal lower gear on Firebirds, Tempests, Lemans, and GTOs, and Big Cars because they had engineering problems with Timing Chains and gears in the late 60s and early 70s.

So the Pontiac Boys better read up on their history before they throw rocks about suspect engineering. The EFI pump, especially when played with by a tuner, exerts a massive load on the timing chains and gears of the Ecoboost engines.

Tom V.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

ECOBOOST is a generic term for a Ford engine with a Turbocharged Engine under the hood. Ford has done 3.5L engines, 2.7L engines, 2.3L (4 cylinder) engines for many years now. I drive a 2019 Ecoboost F-150 Truck with the 10 speed trans.

Did a basic search on the timing chain issues and some have 100K on their engines with no issues reported. Some other F-150 Forum guys have swapped FEAD parts on their engines as well as "played with things" and they have had timing chain issues on the 2011 to early 2014 engines.

Like I said I drive an April built 2019 truck. My early 2016 Ecoboost F-150 ran great. One of the best trucks I ever owned. Not one issue with the truck.

Not saying that the Camshafts are not applying a massive load on the chains.
The Fuel Pump driven by the timing Chains/Camshaft applies a load on the timing chains.
And a lot of the engines repaired were high mileage engines.

Seems to me that I was replacing a LOT of TIMING CHAINS and Nylon Upper Timing Gears and a metal lower gear on Firebirds, Tempests, Lemans, and GTOs, and Big Cars because they had engineering problems with Timing Chains and gears in the late 60s and early 70s.

So the Pontiac Boys better read up on their history before they throw rocks about suspect engineering. The EFI pump, especially when played with by a tuner, exerts a massive load on the timing chains and gears of the Ecoboost engines.

Tom V.

I suspect that I will have to deal with the very long timing chain on my Tundra at some point. Going to have to pull off the front of the engine and maybe the truck when that day comes.
Hope there are a few good U Tube videos about it along with a good manual on the subject.
You are exactly right on the PMD/nylon timing gear issues. One of my first memories about my father working on our Pontiacs was doing a valve job on our 66 Catalina. Had to be around 1970-71. I was hanging out in the garage asking questions being a annoying kid and when he was done went out on the test drive. He floored it and it ran great until the nylon gear let loose. He was depressed. But, took it apart and replaced it with a all metal one and it ran great. Early lesson, must have been 5-6 years old.

[242177P]

Even with more efficient torque convertors, there's still slippage. Is the 5000 rpm under
load perhaps used for better coupling, or do they use lockup while it's in this mode?
(either way, there's considerably more fluid flow)

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

ECOBOOST is a generic term for a Ford engine with a Turbocharged Engine under the hood. Ford has done 3.5L engines, 2.7L engines, 2.3L (4 cylinder) engines for many years now. I drive a 2019 Ecoboost F-150 Truck with the 10 speed trans.

Did a basic search on the timing chain issues and some have 100K on their engines with no issues reported. Some other F-150 Forum guys have swapped FEAD parts on their engines as well as "played with things" and they have had timing chain issues on the 2011 to early 2014 engines.

Like I said I drive an April built 2019 truck. My early 2016 Ecoboost F-150 ran great. One of the best trucks I ever owned. Not one issue with the truck.

Not saying that the Camshafts are not applying a massive load on the chains.
The Fuel Pump driven by the timing Chains/Camshaft applies a load on the timing chains.
And a lot of the engines repaired were high mileage engines.

Seems to me that I was replacing a LOT of TIMING CHAINS and Nylon Upper Timing Gears and a metal lower gear on Firebirds, Tempests, Lemans, and GTOs, and Big Cars because they had engineering problems with Timing Chains and gears in the late 60s and early 70s.

So the Pontiac Boys better read up on their history before they throw rocks about suspect engineering. The EFI pump, especially when played with by a tuner, exerts a massive load on the timing chains and gears of the Ecoboost engines.

Tom V.

Not a big Ford fan, personally, which is why I am on a Pontiac site. However, I work on those 3.5L twin turbo ecoboost engines in Transit 350 vans all the time. They are damn tough engines IMO, lots of power, great economy, low oil consumption, and very trouble free. Better than an LS? I would just say different. I work on lots of 6.0L LS engines as well. Many with over 300K miles on them, leaking oil out of every pore, but running fine. I will say the packaging of the ecoboost engines in the Transit vans is absolutely horrible. Replaced a radiator in one last week. almost an 8 hour job. Ridiculous how that module is wedged in there.

[77 Canamman]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Did a basic search on the timing chain issues and some have 100K on their engines with no issues reported. Some other F-150 Forum guys have swapped FEAD parts on their engines as well as "played with things" and they have had timing chain issues on the 2011 to early 2014 engines.

Not saying that the Camshafts are not applying a massive load on the chains.
The Fuel Pump driven by the timing Chains/Camshaft applies a load on the timing chains.
And a lot of the engines repaired were high mileage engines.

Seems to me that I was replacing a LOT of TIMING CHAINS and Nylon Upper Timing Gears and a metal lower gear on Firebirds, Tempests, Lemans, and GTOs, and Big Cars because they had engineering problems with Timing Chains and gears in the late 60s and early 70s.

So the Pontiac Boys better read up on their history before they throw rocks about suspect engineering. The EFI pump, especially when played with by a tuner, exerts a massive load on the timing chains and gears of the Ecoboost engines.

Tom V.

Ray Charles could see that the GM Nylon cam gear/chains were garbage. They affected all divisions back then, not just Pontiac. They were an engineering disaster. The take away is pure planned obsolescence.

The EB stretched chains I referred to were in the earlier pre 2014 F150'S, ALL with under 30k miles. No mods OR tunes on any of them either.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by 77 Canamman

The EB stretched chains I referred to were in the earlier pre 2014 F150'S, ALL with under 30k miles. No mods OR tunes on any of them either.

Believe the issues were 2011 to early 2014.

Funny, that is not what the Boys on the F-150 board say.
But THIS thread is about the LS guys kicking the Pontiac Engine guys further into history. David Butler, from a hard core Pontiac Family background saw the light and is working with those guys as a smart businessman.

Tom V.

[P@blo]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Believe the issues were 2011 to early 2014.

Funny, that is not what the Boys on the F-150 board say.
But THIS thread is about the LS guys kicking the Pontiac Engine guys further into history. David Butler, from a hard core Pontiac Family background saw the light and is working with those guys as a smart businessman.

Tom V.

Those that cannot adapt to change fall along the wayside. As you mentioned Tom, a smart businessman would have seen the writing in the wall many moons ago and scaled up the aspect that is growing as the others taper. I always enjoy reading your posts as you are good with your wording and cool experiences.

Like I mentioned before if you were planning on swapping to a 4l80e you Might as well kill two birds with one stone and go faster for less in the process. And I dont pop my hood for just anyone either

[242177P]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

But THIS thread is about the LS guys kicking the Pontiac Engine guys further into history.

Wrong. This thread is all over the map, but it's about leveling the playing field.
In simple terms, that means improving the Pontiac engine.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by 242177P

Wrong. This thread is all over the map, but it's about leveling the playing field.
In simple terms, that means improving the Pontiac engine.

THAT IS SOME FUNNY CHIT.

GM killed the Pontiac Division as well as the Oldsmobile Division.

There is NO Pontiac Engine, they stopped making them years ago.
The LS engine was the last breath of the Pontiac Division.

You have some people copying Pontiac Engineered designs for parts.
You have some making parts that will just bolt onto the engine.
Saying that an engine is a Pontiac engine just because it has approximately a 4.625" BORE SPACING is mighty weak as far as calling a part a Pontiac part.
You have a few left over Junk Yard and garage hoarded parts still out there.

Leveling the Playing Field, like I said some funny chit.
When John Mahovitz can run a 5.70 quarter mile time with a 281 cid engine
using Turbos, when you can also run a 5.70 quarter mile time with the same weight vehicle, with the same aero, and with the same 4.6L engine size then you can talk about a level playing field.
Mahovitz went thru about 26 engines (give or take a couple) to put his number on the board and many years of time and lots of money.

You, 242177P, just want to gripe about not having a level playing field.
I have not seen one post by you providing any real knowledge to this forum or any other forum. Just a complainer when a few do all of the work.

Where is your LS background so that you can figure out how to make a BETTER engine vs the LS engine and call it a Pontiac Engine. Go away. Mickey Thompson was a DO-ER. You are just a complainer.

I have given you advice on the board. Can't accuse me of stirring Chit. My advice is valid as is my history on the Pontiac Aftermarket Engine parts.

Tom V.

[P@blo]

If we really think about it all the vintage parts we hord should go back into the pontiac chassis from which they came. The guys restoring to the vintage will do more to preserve Pontiac then anything us hot rodders will do.

Best year block this, best year that is accelerating the process...

[i82much]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

There is NO Pontiac Engine, they stopped making them years ago.
The LS engine was the last breath of the Pontiac Division.

You have some people copying Pontiac Engineered designs for parts.
You have some making parts that will just bolt onto the engine.
Saying that an engine is a Pontiac engine just because it has approximately a 4.625" BORE SPACING is mighty weak as far as calling a part a Pontiac part.
You have a few left over Junk Yard and garage hoarded parts still out there.

I have an aftermarket block in my 65 GTO, aluminum heads, quick fuel carb. Repop gauges and sheet metal, Dana 60, and a muncie with an aftermarket case.

Sometimes I wish I'd done it with factory parts. I'd love to have a 421 tripower or dual quad setup instead, original gauges and sheet metal, all that jazz. But truth is, sooner or later you are going to have to put an aftermarket part on your car if you want to drive it a lot. And chances are pretty good that part was made outside of the USA. So I think we all end up falling somewhere on a spectrum of where we are comfortable, how far we are willing to deviate from building a car exactly like GM did in the 60's.

I don't have a logical answer as to why I prefer an aftermarket Pontiac block in my car to an aftermarket BBC or an LS engine, it's just kind of what felt right to me. I'd consider trading it for a nice original 421, maybe something with factory round ports from a later engine, would be pretty fast and fun still and more "Pontiac." But what's the point in driving around in a 421 car with chinese gauges? Better go burn rubber with what I have and not worry about it.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by i82much

I have an aftermarket block in my 65 GTO, aluminum heads, quick fuel carb. Repop gauges and sheet metal, Dana 60, and a muncie with an aftermarket case.

Sometimes I wish I'd done it with factory parts. I'd love to have a 421 tripower or dual quad setup instead, original gauges and sheet metal, all that jazz. But truth is, sooner or later you are going to have to put an aftermarket part on your car if you want to drive it a lot. And chances are pretty good that part was made outside of the USA. So I think we all end up falling somewhere on a spectrum of where we are comfortable, how far we are willing to deviate from building a car exactly like GM did in the 60's.

I don't have a logical answer as to why I prefer an aftermarket Pontiac block in my car to an aftermarket BBC or an LS engine, it's just kind of what felt right to me. I'd consider trading it for a nice original 421, maybe something with factory round ports from a later engine, would be pretty fast and fun still and more "Pontiac." But what's the point in driving around in a 421 car with chinese gauges? Better go burn rubber with what I have and not worry about it.

Can't disagree with that post.
I had a complete 376 hp 421 engine: Heads, fresh .010/.010 crank, that I basically gave to a friend for $200 just to get it out of my garage. Same deal with four 400 blocks from 1968 to 1970. I will never use them so I gave them away.

I still have my original 1964 389 Tri-Power Engine and 4 speed trans for the car but only because I want to keep the car and those parts somewhat together.

So after owning the car since new from the GM Brass Hat Executive (he drove it for 6 months), I have owned it. Far longer than 99% of the people on this board of thousands have owned their Pontiacs. 242177P probably was in diapers or not even born when the car was sold. So he pretends that I am a Ford Guy and he is a Pontiac Guy. RIGHT. Can't fix stupid.

I am a Boost Guy, I can make anything fast.
Drone Aircraft that fly in the skies 40,000 feet up taking pictures of the Bad Guys for days at a time powered by Hydrogen Fuel.

Ford 4.6L engines that can run 5.70s in the quarter in a car, not a dragster or Funny car.

Bonneville engines that can run 270 MPH in a 82 Trans Am.

So the little boy in diapers thinks his bawling contributes anything to the discussion on Pontiac vs LS engines for engineering capabilities?
You got to be kidding. He is just a troll over in the clubhouse.

I personally give examples in discussions I have. Some should try it sometime. General Motors made the decision to Kill a dying breed of engines, Pontiac and Oldsmobile. Just like Ford Killed the Flathead engines, the 300 cid 6 cylinder engines and 5.0L engines, and the 312 Ford engines.

The 302 engines were weak and had crummy heads until Engineering came up with heavy duty blocks, cranks, and good flowing heads to work with the Centrifugal Superchargers at the time. The last real "Heavy Duty" Pontiac Block was 455 SD engine in 1973.

1973, 1983, 1993, 2003, 2013, 2020, almost 50 years ago.

Most guys would like the original cars so that they could later sell the cars for big cash. Purely a money thing. No love for the original cars. A few: John V, OMT, and a couple of others still have their 64 GTOs they bought new.

The rest are just after the bucks or want to live the dream of owning a muscle car.

The LS engine is a fine engine. As is the aftermarket parts from some companies. That is all I will say on that deal.

Tom V.

[242177P]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

When John Mahovitz can run a 5.70 quarter mile time with a 281 cid engine

Let me guess... he's a Ford guy? And 5.70s in the ¼??
Scroll back up to the top, you'll see Pontiac - Street.