[Slick]

Re: 71-72 G T O differences.

In addition to the aforementioned air extractors, a very visible outward difference are the front grilles. In 71, they looked like chrome chain link fence, in 72, they were square opening black plastic.

The reverse grille change compared to a 66/67 G T O comparison.

Stuart

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by Slick

Re: 71-72 G T O differences.

In addition to the aforementioned air extractors, a very visible outward difference are the front grilles. In 71, they looked like chrome chain link fence, in 72, they were square opening black plastic.

The reverse grille change compared to a 66/67 G T O comparison.

Stuart

Just looked at the pics. Can't tell what grills those cars had. That's why, when looking at online pics, I always look for the air extractors.

But, I understand the grill change deal. Same between '77 & '78 Bird grills. And, there were at least 3 difference grills among the '70-'73 Birds. The '72 grills were sorta honeycomb. The '73 grills had larger rectangles, rather than the small squares of the '70-'71 grills.

Never had a '71 or '72 GTO, nor ever had one at my shop. But, I just looked up some grill pics. The 1st thing I noticed is that the '72 grills are recessed several inches into the bumper, whereas the '71 grills are almost even with front of the bumper. Also, the holes in the grills are obviously different shapes.

[ponyakr]

In recent years, the only '71 Bird Stocker I can think of was raced by Ryan Schloe. It ran a D-port 455, with #66 heads.

There have been at least two '72 Birds running Stock. The most famous, of course , has been raced by Brad Burton, with which he's won numerous races & 2 nat championships.

Those cars look to be correct. This 3rd '72 has the correct '72 grills, a T/A hood & shaker scoop, and T/A air extractors. But, it has no front spoiler or wheel flares. Back in '75, in div 4, that car would not have been allowed to run. But, this car has run lots of big races like this. So, that just shows that the body of cars does not have to be as correct as they use to.

This is in no way a put down of anybody. And I'm not gonna be a whistle blower, to NHRA. Just making some casual observations of things that are very obvious, to anyone who knows much about these cars. I've already mentioned cars that had the wrong fenders, and one car has no front turn signals. But, all these cars have passed tech many times, at many big races. So, that seems to make all these things quite legal, nowadays.

[ponyakr]

'73 was a very eventful year for Pontiac. Some good & some bad. To me, the bad was the complete body style change for the A-body. That's all I'll say about that, because some here love the '73 A-body.

The big deal was the release of the SD455 engine. And, there were a few Pontiac racers that immediately got one & put it on the track. One of these guys was John Clegg. He bought one, took it to Indy, & won his D/S class !

I may have already posted this. But it needs to go right here, again.

https://www.facebook.com/NHRA/videos/2196660753953292/

I suppose one of the most famous SD455 Stockers was the Herslow & Morlock "Celluloid Hero" E/SA record holder, which made the cover of SS&DI mag.

[ponyakr]

Of course, not all '73 Bird Stockers ran the SD455. They could run a 400 or the D-port 455.

In recent years, the only 2 Stockers, running as '73 models, that I can think of, is the car raced by Michael Brand, & the yellow car that was raced by Adam Davis. The yellow car has changed hands.

Both cars have run strong. Michael won his class at Indy, in 2015. Adam was RU in his class. Michael ran 1.010 under. Adam ran 1.048 under. 2 pretty strong Birds.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2015#indextop

For the 2019 season, as many here know, Michael switched his Bird over to SD455 power. Did a quick check. A 10.77 was the quickest time I saw. The car wasn't as far under as it was with the D-port engine. But, maybe it went quicker than that. Anybody know it's best ET, with the SD455 ?

Here's a re-post of a link to the video of a pass, with the SD455 in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO-04aqNm5I

Michael ran the car as a Formula, which as most here know, could use a T/A hood & shaker, without any spoilers or wheel flares. So, I assume that the only body changes he had to make was to change out the hoods & install the shaker.

[ponyakr]

Before we leave '73, I wanna mention this. I've already posted that the '73-'77 A-body is not my favorite Pontiac body style. But, that has not kept Pontiac guys from racin 'em, in both Stock & SS.

Right now, the earliest '73 A-body Stocker I know of was raced by Mick Leiferman. Seems I remember somebody mentioning that he may have ran an SD455 in it. And, as we've discussed, NHRA allows the SD455 in a '73 GTO. If it did run an SD455, it was indeed a rare piece of Pontiac racing history.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2080

But I can't verify that, one way or the other. In the only pic I have of the car, I can't make out the class designation, on the side. I can make out an SA. So, that means it was an auto trans Stocker. Can anybody tell the exact class, from the pic below ?

Anyhow, he could have run a 400, a D-port 455, or an SD455. If I have ever seen a pic of another '73 GTO Stocker, I am not aware of it. But, there probably were a few, in earlier years. If anybody has pics of any, please post 'em.

As mentioned, Mick held a nat record for 5 years running, & was RU at Indy 3 times straight. So, that would make us think that the '73 GTO probably ran pretty good, too. But I have no record of any performance results from the car.

[ponyakr]

Now for '74 Birds. There have been lots of '74 Birds in Stock & SS. That '74 400 engine seems to be very popular with quite a few class racers.

The Class Racer Info site shows it to have a 275 NHRA hp factor, for all Stockers. And, it can be run in Formys, T/A's, and all A-bodies, including wagons.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...1&MAKE=Pontiac

The D-port 455 & SD455 can also be run in the Formy & T/A.

In recent years, the only three '74 bird Stockers I remember being in competition, was the Lindy Lindholm Formy, that was stolen, a Texas T/A, driven by Hunter Pierdolla, and the Bob Mulry Formy. Bob's car was probably the quickest Pontiac Stocker ever, against it's index, going more than 1.5 sec under, going more than a sec under MANY times, & qualifying #1 at lots or races. I'll use the nest post for more on Bob's car.

Lindy's car ran lots of West coast races. Usually qualified well.

Hunter Pierdolla ran his Bird in nat events in Houston & Dallas a few times. Also ran some other div 4 races. A pic of the car was posted on the John Clegg Mission Garage site. It also has Mission Garage on the side of it. I read that Hunter's Dad, Forest, built the car.

It runs in H/SA. So, from my calculations, it has the D-port 455 engine, with an NHRA 306hp factor. A quick search found a best ET of 11.159, which was .991 under the index. That reminds me of just how quick Stockers are now. H-O set the nat rec, with a '74 SD455 car, in SS/KA, at 11.31. This car went quicker than that, in Stock !

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=309188

The older pic of the engine, shows it with SD 455 on the shaker scoop. So, I suppose it had the SD455, at that time. But, using an online calculator, the lowest class I can see that it could run, with the SD455, would be G/SA. The hp factor for stock auto is 335hp. The NHRA weight for the T/A is 3668lbs. So, that comes out to just under 11lbs/hp.

3668 lbs divided by 335hp = 10.949..........

That means the car is a natural F/SA. But since you can add weight to make the next lower class, with just a small amount added, the car could run G/SA, @ 11lbs/hp. If ya'll see something I'm missing that would allow a '74 SD455 T/A to run H/SA, please post that info.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...3&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2093

http://www.classracerinfo.com/NHRA_Classes.aspx

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

But I can't verify that, one way or the other. In the only pic I have of the car, I can't make out the class designation, on the side. I can make out an SA. So, that means it was an auto trans Stocker. Can anybody tell the exact class, from the pic below ?

H/SA.

It's pretty clear on my monitor at work.

K

[455dan]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

'73 was a very eventful year for Pontiac. Some good & some bad. To me, the bad was the complete body style change for the A-body. That's all I'll say about that, because some here love the '73 A-body.

The big deal was the release of the SD455 engine. And, there were a few Pontiac racers that immediately got one & put it on the track. One of these guys was John Clegg. He bought one, took it to Indy, & won his D/S class !

I may have already posted this. But it needs to go right here, again.

https://www.facebook.com/NHRA/videos/2196660753953292/

I suppose one of the most famous SD455 Stockers was the Herslow & Morlock "Celluloid Hero" E/SA record holder, which made the cover of SS&DI mag.

Wasn't H-O Racing also into stock class racing with 2? SD-455 powered T/A's for a short time
I believe this was in addition to Craig's 74 SD T/A SS car

reading an old post sdbobs and Craig Hendrickson's response below from PY,

I think Kern Osterstock also may have competed for a short time with a factory SD T/A and also may have ran the 73 T/A he swapped in a 455 SD and ran it in K/SA

sdbob View Post
Fred was from Tallmadge, ohio. He brought the car to Winternationals 74,think it was G/SA at the time Someone from HO helped him get the car to run faster.it was blue.
Now I remember some more about that car (I can't ask Kern because he has passed). Kern was impressed with it at the WinterNationals and because he wanted an SD-455 he made Fred (or sons) an offer that they could not resist. That car never went much faster than at the W'Nats, but Kern had fun with it it. Later, he sold it to who I don't know and bought a 1973 T/A (non SD-455) and put a 455-SD in it. He drove that one on the street. Probably never got beat! (picture taken at the old Irwindale Drag Strip in the mid 1970's).

[ponyakr]

" Wasn't H-O Racing also into stock class racing with 2? SD-455 powered T/A's for a short time
I believe this was in addition to Craig's 74 SD T/A SS car..."

I'm not aware, nor do I have any pics. But, it wouldn't surprise me a bit.

It seems that several of the SD455 guys used 'em in several different applications. That was when the SD455 heads were a LOT cheaper.

Herslow & Morlock, Phil Szupka, Bob Michael, Don Kennedy, John Clegg, Jack Mullins, Glenn Tinsley, Lynn McCarty, & the H-O guys, are some of the names that come to mind, who ran SD455 stuff.

I know an SD455 Stocker ran out of John Clegg's shop. Besides the Herslow & Morlock Stocker, the others I can think of were Super Stocks.

Just looked back thru some of my pics. #5 shows a '74 Bird running E/SA. Has Tony Reiter on the door. I have it listed as Bill Foder. Don't know why. Maybe he was the driver ? Anyhow, don't think a '74 could have run E/SA without SD455 power.

[ponyakr]

I have these pics of 2 Birds with H-O on the door.

Don't know if the H-O guys owned or just sponsored the cars.

The black car looks to have big tires. So it was obviously a Super Stocker.

From the side view, I can't tell if the tires on the white Bird are big, or not. So, I suppose it could have been a Stocker ? Assume both were SS cars.