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#1
09-16-2020, 12:04 AM
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Steve Smith 3rd Gen
Before the Burtons raced their '91 3rd gen, it was raced by Steve Smith. I knew that Steve had run a Pontiac powered GT Bird. But I just recently thought to do a search on Auto Imagery, for Steve Smith. To my surprise, the pics were of a car that looked exactly like the Burton car, including the wide blue stripe. Many, if not most guys change the paint job, at least slightly, when they buy a car that has been a recently active race car.
5/17/01 - Englishtown - #36 - .927 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop 8/31/01 - US Nats - #75 - .823 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop 10/4/01 - Pep Boys Nats - #22 - .921 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop 4/26/02 - Thunder Valley Nats - #16 - .886 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop 5/26/02 - div 1-1 - #43 - Race Winner !  https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop 6/8/02 - div 1-2 - #16 - .982 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop 6/22/02 - div 1-3 - #19 - .927 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop 8/10/02 - div 1-6 - #15 - .946 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop 8/25/02 - div 1-7 - #20 - .899 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop 8/31/02 - US Nats - #98 - .905 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop 9/13/02 - Lucas Oil Nats - #42 - .978 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop "How bout Steve Smith's 91 formula div 1 championship 400 6x car 9.80's..." Noticed that his car wore the #5 during the '03 season. So, I assumed he was div 1 champ in '02. "Super Stock 1. Steven Smith 2. Sal Biondo 3. Bob Letellier" https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=30435 5/16/03 - Englishtown - #11 - 9.941 - 1.159 under - Perm number 5. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...B0ldA--&GI_ID= 5/29/04 - div 1-1 - #26 - 1.013 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop 6/17/04 - Super Nats - #29 - .803 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop 9/17/04 - Lucas Oil Nats - #36 - 1.018 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=1564 10/17/04 - Dutch Classic - #17 - 1.064 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop 6/17/05 - Englishtown - #34 - .989 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop 5/28/06 - div 1-1 - #24 - 1.017 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop 8/26/06 - div 1-4 - #29 - .951 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop 9/2/06 - US Nats - #26 - 1.113 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop 9/30/06 - Toyo Tires Nats - #5 - 1.223 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop 6/21/07 - Englishtown - #9 - 1.090 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop 8/25/07 - div 1-5 - #17 - .955 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop 9/8/07 - div 1-6 - #32 - .912 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop 9/22/07 - div 1-7 - #43 - .961 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop 10/20/07 - Dutch Classic - #18 - 1.108 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop 5/24/08 - div 1-2 - #40 - 1.007 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 6/19/08 - Englishtown - #39 - .960 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 8/15/08 - Toyo Tires Nats - #6 - 9.991 - 1.109 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 8/30/08 - US Nats - #51 - 1.034 under - Semi-Final Finish. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 10/4/08 - div 1-7 - #28 - 9.963 - 1.137 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 5/23/09 - div 1-2 - #27 - 1.007 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 6/12/09 - Englishtown - #22 - .920 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 8/21/09 - Toyo Tires Nats - #13 - .983 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 9/5/09 - US Nats - #52 - 9.97 - 1.130 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 9/12/09 - div 1-6 - #17 - 1.066 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 10/3/09 - div 1-7 - #7 - 1.168 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 5/1/10 - div 1-1 - #51 - .485 under. Looks like maybe a larger engine, moving him up a few classes to GT/CA. Not as good against the index. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop 5/29/10 - div 1-2 - #46 - .575 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop 6/10/10 - Englishtown - #27 - 9.646 - .754 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop 8/21/10 - div 1-4 - #35 - .651 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop 10/2/10 - div 1-6 - #25 - .785 under. Apparently went back to the smaller engine & GT/FA. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop 9/2/11 - US Nats - #44 - GT/GA - .879 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2011#indextop 10/7/11 - Auto-Plus Nats - #12 - .945 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2011#indextop 6/1/12 - Englishtown - #40 - .774 under - 3rd Place Finish. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2012#indextop https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2012#indextop 9/1/12 - US Nats - #77 - .852 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2012#indextop 10/3/13 - Auto-Plus Nats - #16 - .848 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2013#indextop 5/30/14 - Englishtown - #18 - 9.953 - .947 under - GT/GA Class Winner. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2014#indextop https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2014#indextop Don't know if that was the last time Steve raced the car, or not. I do know that Scott Burton was listed as the driver at the 2015 US Nats. 9/5/15 - US Nats - #97 - .775 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2015#indextop Obviously, Steve was the previous owner of the 3rd gen that Scott & Brad Burton have been racing for several years. Still has the same paint scheme, complete with blue stripe. https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...9AlXQ--&GI_ID= https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...9AlXQ--&GI_ID= https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...9AlXQ--&GI_ID= |
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#3
09-16-2020, 10:10 AM
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Greg Meyer 3rd Gen GT Bird
Now we'll look at the 3rd gen GT Bird driven by Greg Meyer. It's sometimes listed as a '91 model, sometimes as a '92. Greg runs a 400 engine. I think he uses 6X heads, but MAY have experimented with others. He's a member here. So, I invite him to correct anything I get wrong and/or add any info he'd like to share. MOST of what I know is what's posted on DRC. So, there is a LOT about these cars I DON'T know.
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...8&postcount=25 6/4/09 - Route 66 Nats - #29 - 1.006 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=182963 9/4/09 - US Nats - #85 - 1.091 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 4/30/10 - Midwest Nats - #7 - .899 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=203026 8/15/14 - Lucas Oil Nats - #6 - .861 under - GT/HA Class Win. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=289379 https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=289462 7/10/15 - Route 66 Nats - #17 - .829 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=301612 8/21/15 - Lucas Oil Nats - #3 - .969 under - GT/HA Class Win. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=303796 https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=303795 5/29/16 - Jegs Sports Nats - #12 - .962 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=312681 7/7/16 - Route 66 Nats - #5 - .915 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=314918 8/18/16 - Lucas Oil Nats - #2 - .878 under - GT/HA Class Win. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=316975 https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=316978 8/17/17 - Lucas Oil Nats - #3 - .904 under - GT/LA Class Winner. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...UMMIT#indextop https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2017#indextop 7/7/18 - div 3-3 - #13 - .896 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2017#indextop 7/15/18 - div 3-4 - #9 - .833 under - Got R/U. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2018#indextop https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2018#indextop 10/20/18 - div 3-6 - #8 - 9.986 - .914 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop 5/30/19 - Route 66 Nats - #20 - .836 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop Ran across a LOT more lists where Greg was .800 or more under his index. Too many to list. I think the car could easily run more than a sec under at lots of tracks. But, when you run a sec or more under, you sometimes catch the eye of NHRA officials. So, most Q-lists in recent years do not show many cars a sec or more under, at races where the NHRA officials check it. There are some races where the hp police are not on duty. I think the US Nats is one of those races, as well as maybe some of the national open races. There are also special allowances made for what are called "mineshaft" conditions. That occurs occasionally when the temp is cool & the pressure & humidity is at a certain level. I think the upper half of the field must run a sec or more under, for "mineshaft" conditions to be declared. At least that's my understanding of what I've read about it. May not be EXACTLY accurate. Hope somebody will clarify that rule. |
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#4
09-16-2020, 10:38 AM
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Leo Glasbrenner 4th Gen GT Bird
Let's look at some of the 4th gen GT Birds. This 1st one was raced by Leo Glasbrenner. Leo has a trans shop in CA, called Remac. As many here know, he also ran a quick '68 Bird Stocker, for many years.
Just looked back at some DRC files. At the 2012 Pomona Finals race, he was running it in SS/JA. That means it had Chevy power. But, I assume he swapped out the Chevy engine for a Pontiac engine, during the off-season. By the 2013 Winter Nats, he was running in GT/DA. I think he was running a 455 Pontiac, at that time. Not positive. Later on, I think he switched over to the alum head 428 engine. I've seen the car listed as a '96, '97, & 2000 model. Don't have a clue what it was, from the factory. Here's that '13 Winter Nats Q-list. After this one, I'll try to only list some of the car's best races, to reduce the number of entries. 2/15/13 - Winter Nats - #28 - .631 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2013#indextop 10/13/13 - Vegas SN - #17 - .840 under - GT/DA Class Winner. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2013#indextop https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2013#indextop 2/8/18- Winter Nats - #8 - 9.562 - .938 under - Qualifies at most races somewhere near .800 under, a little more or a little less. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2018#indextop 4/7/18 - Vegas DENSO Nats - #23 - .780 under - GT/HA Class Winner. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2018#indextop The Class Finals list shows the car to have a 428 engine. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2018#indextop 8/25/18 - div 7-5 - .001 final round light- Race Winner !  https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2018#indextop 11/14/19 - Pomona Finals - #18 - 9.66 - .840 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop At the early 2020 races, Leo was driving a '15 Camaro in SS, & a '14 Camaro in Stock. So, I suppose he is another guy who has jumped ship.  At one time, he had put both Pontiacs up for sale & said that whichever one sold 1st, he'd keep & race the other one. Don't know if both cars sold or not.LOTS of guys have switched to the fast FS cars, in both Stock & SS. I suppose the main reason is because in breakout style racing, the fast car has 2 major advantages. (1) The slow car has the 1st chance to red-light. When they trip the red-light, the quicker car gets an automatic win & a free time trial, during elims. Quicker cars win lots of rounds this way, during a full season of racing. (2) The quicker car also has the advantage of being able to easily see exactly where the other car is, all the way down the track. This gives them the advantage, for finish line strategy. It was yellow & white for years. I think it was in 2018 when it was changed to blue & white. Last edited by ponyakr; 09-16-2020 at 11:01 AM. |
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#5
09-16-2020, 11:42 AM
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The Johnny Duncan 4th GT Bird
The GT car I wanna look at next has been most recently driven by John Agneta & Sean Pickett. I've seen it referred to as the Johnny Duncan car. Some pics I have were taken when Johnny was driving the car. His #3256 is on the windshield. The car also shows up, under Johnny's name, on the Auto Imagery site.
I'm not sure of this, but another pic I have was said to be of a car that Sam Biondo was driving. Auto Imagery does indeed show a very similar looking car, under his name. So, until/unless I find out different, I'll assume it is the same car. That means that Sal & Peter Biondo probably also drove it some. So, the car probably made LOTS of races, while the Biondo's were racing it. Anyhow, it shows up on DRC as a '95 model, with Johnny Duncan driving, in 2008. 4/25/08 - Southern Nats - #53 - .860 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 5/16/08 - Thunder Valley Nats - #31 - .663 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 4/17/09 - Southern Nats - #45 - .854 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 7/19/14 - div 3 race - #56 - .538 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2014#indextop 9/19/14 - Northern Sports Nats - #49 - .609 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2014#indextop 6/19/15 - Thunder Valley Nats - #22 - .384 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2015#indextop Next I'll post some links from when John Agneta was driving it. I assume that Sean Pickett & John Agneta owned the car, at that time. Another Pontiac GT racer posted that when John Agneta drove it, the car had a 4X head 400 in it. http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...&postcount=314 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...4&postcount=18 10/11/15 - Dutch Classic - #45 - .815 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2015#indextop At this race, Sean Pickett was driving it, listed as a '96 model. At that race, John Agneta was listed @ #27, driving a '98 Bird. That was said to be the Phil Monteith "Hatari" Bird, which most Pontiac guys are familiar with. 8/19/17 - div 1-6 - #23 - .745 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2017#indextop 10/6/17 - Dutch Classic - #30 - .710 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r=100#indextop 8/18/18 - div 1-6 - #12 - .797 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2018#indextop 5/26/19 - div 1-1 - #42 - .689 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop 8/3/19 - div 1-4 - #30 - .763 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop The car just ran at the 2020 Class Racer Nats, driven by Sean Pickett. |
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#6
09-16-2020, 12:33 PM
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The Phil Monteith 4th Gen Hatari !
Well, I was gonna post some DRC lists of races where this car did good. But, it is such a well known car, & so much has been written about it that I decided not to post a bunch of lists.
I think Peter Biondo won 4, of his 5 national SS championships driving mostly this car. During that process, he obviously won LOTS of div races & national events. Because of all those wins, I assume this car has probably won more races than any other Pontiac powered SS car, ever. There have also been several other drivers, including Sam & Sal Biondo, John Agneta, probably several others I'm not aware of. Phil Monteith probably made a few passes in it, himself. The car was just in the Class Racer Nationals race. Sal Biondo was driving, & made it to the semi-final round. So, it's still a very competitive SS car. I think it ran a 400 for years, then switched over to the alum head 428. Phil Monteith has had a lot of success with his Hatari Birds. I think he also either supplies, or has a hand in, the engines in the Agneta & Pickett 4th gen, & the Biondo Stocker. May not be the quickest engines, but they have proven to provide reliable, competitive power, for many years now. So, hat's off to Phil Monteith, for his contribution to Pontiac powered class racing !  I've seen it listed as a '98 & a 2000, for sure. Assume that would depend on which front cap the car had, at the time. Also assume there has only been one 4th Gen Hatari. But, obviously I don't know that, for sure. |
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#7
09-16-2020, 05:32 PM
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Small Body GT Cars
The body rules for GT are quite liberal. The small body cars, such as the Sunfire & Cobalt can be used. Front wheel drive cars can be converted to rear wheel drive.
From the GT section of the 2020 NHRA rule book: "...Reserved for foreign and domestic factory-production two-door coupes, two-door sedans, sports cars, convertibles, or station wagons with any production V-8 engine of the same make. Year of engine optional. Engine V-8 only; must be same make as body. Year optional...Corporate engines permitted. Truck engines prohibited..." I consider the word "make" to mean either Chevy, or Pontiac, or Buick, or Olds, or etc. But, apparently, NHRA interprets it to mean either General Motors, or Ford Motor Corp, or Chrysler Corp, or etc. So, using THAT interpretation, it means that any GM V8 listed in the NHRA classification guide, could be used in any GT legal GM body. That's why a 428 Pontiac engine is legal in a Chevy Cobalt. I suppose it would also be legal in a Camaro, Corvette, Nova, or Chevy wagon, as well as many Olds, Buick, & Caddy models. The 428 Pontiac is not a "corporate" engine, but it IS from the GM "make". Don't know why they don't just make the rule clear by saying any NHRA legal Super Stock GM V8 in any GT legal GM body. But, whatever. Pontiac V8 engines are legal in most GT legal GM bodies. If the engine claimed was available ONLY with a manual trans, then that engine can NOT be claimed in a GT car, if using an auto trans. Same goes for engines that came ONLY with an auto trans. Can't be claimed in a manual trans GT car. The '77 350 & '79 400 Pontiac engines are examples that come to mind. We all know that the '79 400 came ONLY with a manual trans. The '77 350 came ONLY with an auto, according to NHRA. Sal Piacentini & Mike Morgan have done really well with that engine, in SS. http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...3&MAKE=Pontiac So, anyhow, we'll look closer at 4 of the "small body" Pontiac powered GT cars. |
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#8
09-23-2020, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
__________________
The Bandit Rules - Make mine with a SD-455 Engine . |
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#9
09-28-2020, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
The US nats for the last few years is a race you could go as fast as you want and no horse power was given out . But not anymore . |
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#10
09-30-2020, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Didn't know about the change at Indy. Last year, the top 10 SS cars were more than 1.20 under. So, I suppose that will change under the new rules. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop |
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#11
10-15-2020, 12:00 AM
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Mineshaft ?
Here's more info I just found on the Class Racer forum. Posted it on the Stocker thread. Thought I'd also post it here.
Under certain conditions, it will be determined that there are "mineshaft" conditions, at a race. When this happens, I assume that the NHRA hp factor police will not use the qualifying times, in order to add hp to the quick cars. There are several guys here who know all about this. But, here's what is said to be a quote from the rulebook, which describes what constitutes mineshaft conditions. "To decrease the potential for horsepower/index adjustments when favorable atmospheric (i.e. “mineshaft”) and/or track conditions may have contributed to extraordinary performance the NHRA has developed a system to protect the racers’ horsepower/indexes. If at the conclusion of qualifying the first competitor in the bottom half of the field is -.850 seconds or faster under the class index." Note: This is just something I found on the Class Racer forum & copied. I can't vouch for how accurate the info is. The complete mineshaft details may include more than is mentioned in this post. |
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#12
10-20-2020, 10:14 AM
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Video
This was one of the videos posted in the Stock/SS section, on the Class Racer forum. .
@ the 10:16 point is Keri Angeles driving the John Angeles '69 SS Bird. This car & driver are said to be the 1st regular SS Pontiac 400 powered car to break into the 9's, back in 2000. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d24NRIQkjCI&t=34s https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop |
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