[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

You are just dreaming. That would still not be enough head to produce the HP to hang with the Chevy's. Now a 428 (I like the shorter stroke) with good forged rods and pistons and a street / production version of the RAV head would be a different story..

Stan

No, not dreaming anything Stan. There was actually 2 sets of 90cc SD455 heads made. Dan Whitmore had a PMD engineer bring a set by his shop back in the day. Casting # 96. They even had the pushrod tubes like the 73-74 SD 455 heads. Dan held the heads in his hands, its all true.

The engine was going to be a 455, 10-1, forged pistons and rods, the SD 455 block, N crank, RAIV aluminum intake with the SD 455 Q jet, RAIV cam and valve train, Ram Air ex.
A street monster. It would have made well over 450HP and more than a equal to the LS6 454 on the street.
Not "dreaming" at all Stan. This thing almost happened.
And there were 428s with forged cranks and 2x4 tunnel ram intakes for RAV heads in the works too. They made some intakes and some Kellogg cranks also but 3" main for the RAV block.
Chevy killed a LOT of PMDs plans that would have put them at the top on the street.
A person who knew what they were doing could keep up with a LS6 with a RAIV in stock form. This 10-1 455SD would have pummeled the LS6.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

No, not dreaming anything Stan. There was actually 2 sets of 90cc SD455 heads made. Dan Whitmore had a PMD engineer bring a set by his shop back in the day. Casting # 96. They even had the pushrod tubes like the 73-74 SD 455 heads. Dan held the heads in his hands, its all true.

The engine was going to be a 455, 10-1, forged pistons and rods, the SD 455 block, N crank, RAIV aluminum intake with the SD 455 Q jet, RAIV cam and valve train, Ram Air ex.
A street monster. It would have made well over 450HP and more than a equal to the LS6 454 on the street.
Not "dreaming" at all Stan. This thing almost happened.
And there were 428s with forged cranks and 2x4 tunnel ram intakes for RAV heads in the works too. They made some intakes and some Kellogg cranks also but 3" main for the RAV block.
Chevy killed a LOT of PMDs plans that would have put them at the top on the street.
A person who knew what they were doing could keep up with a LS6 with a RAIV in stock form. This 10-1 455SD would have pummeled the LS6.

Really?

Stan

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Really?

Stan

I think so Stan. Its my opinion. And was Dan Whitmores also. That engine would have made as much HP as the stock LS6 and more torque.
It would have ruled the streets.

[Formulajones]

Stan is right. I love Pontiacs just as much as anyone here but I build both BBC and Pontiacs and I can tell you it's much easier, and cheaper, to make power with the BBC's. Especially if you are going to use all production parts.

Get into all the aftermarket stuff and it starts to become a more even playing field thanks to some companies stepping up to the plate for Pontiac, but even with that the BBC just has a more superior head design to start with.

You can bench race it all you want and talk about could have or would have, lol. It makes an entertaining discussion but at the end of the day it's not what I'm seeing on the dyno or at the track.

[ponyakr]

I have absolutely nothing constructive to add to this thread.

BUT, as just a casual observer, it seems that more & more often, when discussing Pontiac engines, somebody always eventually says how much more power some other brand will make, & how much cheaper a Chevy based engine can be built.

My opinion is WHO CARES ?

If somebody wants a Chevy engine, buy or build one. If someone wants a 10,000hp nitro engine & has the money to build one, do it.

But if someone just wants to badmouth the Pontiac engine & post how inferior it is, why post that on a Pontiac forum ?

I suspect there are FAR more Chevy forums where the greatness of Chevy engines can be discussed.

Opinions differ.

PS: Not meant as a put down to any particular member here. LOTS of members here have been guilty of it. I've also mentioned the fact that a small block Chevy engine can be built much cheaper than a Pontiac. But, I always recommend a Pontiac, for those who can afford it, NOT because it's the greatest engine design ever. But mostly because I'm a Pontiac freek, & I like to see a Pontiac engine in a Pontiac body, especially if that body came from the factory with a Pontiac engine. We're all entitled to our opinion.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

I have absolutely nothing constructive to add to this thread.

BUT, as just a casual observer, it seems that more & more often, when discussing Pontiac engines, somebody always eventually says how much more power some other brand will make, & how much cheaper a Chevy based engine can be built.

My opinion is WHO CARES ?

If somebody wants a Chevy engine, buy or build one. If someone wants a 10,000hp nitro engine & has the money to build one, do it.

But if someone just wants to badmouth the Pontiac engine & post how inferior it is, why post that on a Pontiac forum ?

I suspect there are FAR more Chevy forums where the greatness of Chevy engines can be discussed.

Opinions differ.

PS: Not meant as a put down to any particular member here. LOTS of members here have been guilty of it. I've also mentioned the fact that a small block Chevy engine can be built much cheaper than a Pontiac. But, I always recommend a Pontiac, for those who can afford it, NOT because it's the greatest engine design ever. But mostly because I'm a Pontiac freek, & I like to see a Pontiac engine in a Pontiac body, especially if that body came from the factory with a Pontiac engine. We're all entitled to our opinion.

I think if you read through the thread you'll get the impression that most in here do care. Don't think anyone is bad mouthing Pontiac either. Least I haven't seen that here. Not even sure why the comparison was brought up in the first place, it's not what Steve was asking about. I was simply stating the facts that I've seen with my experience building both engines in response to Stan and Dragncar, and it appears at least one of them is on the same page.
I suspect that most here that are diehard Pontiac fans wouldn't know or have experience with other brands. So you have to take those opinions with a grain of salt.
Besides, it's just bench racing, chit chat, interesting discussion. Like it or not.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

I have absolutely nothing constructive to add to this thread.

BUT, as just a casual observer, it seems that more & more often, when discussing Pontiac engines, somebody always eventually says how much more power some other brand will make, & how much cheaper a Chevy based engine can be built.

My opinion is WHO CARES ?

If somebody wants a Chevy engine, buy or build one. If someone wants a 10,000hp nitro engine & has the money to build one, do it.

But if someone just wants to badmouth the Pontiac engine & post how inferior it is, why post that on a Pontiac forum ?

I suspect there are FAR more Chevy forums where the greatness of Chevy engines can be discussed.

Opinions differ.

PS: Not meant as a put down to any particular member here. LOTS of members here have been guilty of it. I've also mentioned the fact that a small block Chevy engine can be built much cheaper than a Pontiac. But, I always recommend a Pontiac, for those who can afford it, NOT because it's the greatest engine design ever. But mostly because I'm a Pontiac freek, & I like to see a Pontiac engine in a Pontiac body, especially if that body came from the factory with a Pontiac engine. We're all entitled to our opinion.

No one said to build or use a Chevy engine.

Dragncar like to say IF Pontiac did this or that, how much more power the Pontiac would have made as compared to the Chevy. A couple of us I just trying to tell it as it is.

Stan

[242177P]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

... as much HP as the stock LS6 and more torque. It would have ruled the streets.

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

... how much more power the Pontiac would have made as compared to the Chevy. A couple of us I just trying to tell it as it is.

Stan

The 455 Pontiac's stroke suggests that it would have had more low end torque. And on
the street, torque monsters were a force to be reckoned with. The Stage1 Buicks are fine
examples. Take the 440 SixPack versus the Hemi, being forced to run someone down on
the top end isn't much fun on the street.

A sharp tune also makes a difference. Is it fair to say that Chevies are more sensitive?