[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by AC445

Hello all, In the early 70's I was attending a Pontiac class at the G.M. tech center in Warren,Mich. The instructor told me that George Delorean had a shop a little north off of rt. 75. I called and George said I could come by after class.I drove up and found Leader Automotive .He gave me a tour and showed me a lot of parts I never knew existed. There were aluminum blocks,small chamber S.D.455 heads, forged cranks, and RAM V parts. There was a mock-up V engine with V intake flanges and a ford tunnel port 2 four barrel top they were mating together for a customer. If the instructor hadn't sent me I probably wouldn't have got past the counter.

Thanks for that. A lot of people do not realize just how much effort, how much want there was a PMD to bring us up in the horsepower department to equal or pass up Chevy.
Thing is, the Vette had to be the fastest, most powerful GM car period. Its not that Pontiac did not want to compete with them, they did. You all remember the Opal GT ? 2 seater that looked sort of like the Vette ? THAT was a Pontiac design, they wanted to compete head to head with Chevy on their terms. But were not allowed to. You know that little "bulge" on the hood just to the driver side ? It was there because the only engine corporate would let them install was a inline 6. It was too high for the hood. Pontiac took a Chevy inline 6 and made their own far better head for it. Kinda like we did with a SD 4cyl head too.
Pontiac plans were a 428 with RAV heads, forged crank and a 2x4 tunnel. Like the intake that burned up in the Beswick barn fire.
There are LOTs of other stories about things like this. Dan Whitmore was my friend, new PMD engineers, knew all the dirt. The 1970 Pontiac 427 SOHC Hemi that was never allowed to see the light of day. It would have changed the rules. Far ahead of any Chevy engine, but Chevy could not have that now.
The people behind Pontiac had the biggest balls at GM and wanted to be the best but were artificially kept down.
I have said it before and will say it again, Pontiac are a BETTER street engine than Chevy. You can use mostly factory parts and get a street car in the 10s without turning big RPM. That means they last a long time.
At our track there are no 9-1 454s in Chevelles running quicker than me. Sure are not any running longer making the power I am. Built in 1990 and still running. They have all blown up 3-4 engines in that period running close ET-MPH.
This is a PONTIAC forum and full of Pontiac nuts like me. Is the BBC a better race engine, sure. Who cares, we like Pontiacs.
We all know in the end a BBC will out run a Pontiac. BUT, in the 500-650 HP street engines Pontiacs are better. Pontiacs have their niche. A lot of die hards love the Pontiac, no other long dead engine has so many hard core race parts available and developed on the dime's than our old Stratostreak V8.
The 1970 10-1 455 SD engine that got nixed by Chevy would have been a lot like my 455 HO, its a great street engine.

[Bill Hanlon]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

You know that little "bulge" on the hood just to the driver side ? It was there because the only engine corporate would let them install was a inline 6. It was too high for the hood.

Opel GT was offered with the buyer's choice of a 68 cubic inch 4 cylinder OHV engine or a 116 cubic inch 4 cylinder OHC engine. There was never a 6 cylinder engine offered.

[Formulajones]

Cracks me up how so many people get their panties in a twist over this brand is better than this or that. I've never really cared, I enjoy them all and love building, driving and racing any brand. Just poke the bear and sit back and giggle

If that Pontiac street car you have is so fast Dragncar, bring it out here to the muscle car drags and show everyone here in Arizona how it's done. I'm sure the PSCA has a class that fits your car. They are in Vegas next month. If ya want we can set up a friendly wager with my slow 454 that could blow up at anytime, it's been together for 20 years now making 600hp so it must be a ticking time bomb

[P@blo]

Too funny. Self declared champions and rulers of the roost after the chickens have been gone for 50+ years...

[Formulajones]

It's all just fun. If we can't enjoy a little rivalry and appreciate all classic cars in general then we are probably in the wrong hobby.

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

in the 500-650 HP street engines Pontiacs are better.

Not in these parts that I've seen but so variables in play.

Length of street that can safely full throttle.
how contaminated and slick the asphalt is, type of tires, setup of the car, driving skill and aggressiveness.

We did some crazy stuff in the past, street racing 3 cars across 3 lanes.
These days I feel street racing is just not worth the risk, just take it to the track. Maybe you won't lose traction but what if the guy beside you does and hits you near the start.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by pastry_chef

Not in these parts that I've seen but so variables in play.

Length of street that can safely full throttle.
how contaminated and slick the asphalt is, type of tires, setup of the car, driving skill and aggressiveness.

We did some crazy stuff in the past, street racing 3 cars across 3 lanes.
These days I feel street racing is just not worth the risk, just take it to the track. Maybe you won't lose traction but what if the guy beside you does and hits you near the start.

That was more about a street Pontiac 550 HP engine will usually have more torque than a 550HP Chevy so its a advantage IMO.
You can do it with factory blocks and heads and low enough RPM the engines last a long time.
Street racing is all but dead around here. But the track has free street drags on race weekends for the kids to let off stream. Very popular but mostly tuner cars.
In the 80s street muscle car racing was so big we had lunchtime drags in High School. Talk $h!t in the morning, settle it at lunch. It was great.