[64 Poncho]

Had a 750 cfm Ecarb on a 68 400 that came on the car I bought it. Could never get it tuned. Different jets, rods, springs. It was an older version, but still wasn’t impressed. Found out when I rebuilt the engine, valves were not adjusted correctly. After market cam with adjustment ran down to the bottle neck on stock Pontiac Studs.
Took all the play out of the plungers and actually cracked the seats in the lifter. Well its all better now and I put a Q jet with a factory
Intake manifold. The best part is I traded the carb for a good running Stihl 028 chainsaw! Even up!!

[00fxd]

It's pretty simple. If you want it to run nice and predictable like your moms station wagon you use an AFB/Clone [or if applicable the original Qjet]. If ya wanna go fast you use a Holley.

[Sirrotica]

So in essence what you're saying is, if you want your car to run terrible, and unpredictably, idle badly, get poor fuel mileage, but go really fast at one throttle position, (WOT), you buy a holley?

I'd kind of tend to agree, only thing is most E carbs clones don't come close to real Carter AFBs performance. Most street cars (this is the street section) need to operate well at all speeds. And my race cars have all used reworked Q Jets, so you can go fast with them also. Other than that I agree 100%..........

The statement is akin this one, "If you want a Pontiac to run, put a chevy in it". Never bought into that one either......

See quote #1 on my Pontiaddict shirt I designed, and sold, for many years:

[00fxd]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

So in essence what you're saying is, if you want your car to run terrible, and unpredictably, idle badly, get poor fuel mileage, but go really fast at one throttle position, (WOT), you buy a holley?

I'd kind of tend to agree, only thing is most E carbs clones don't come close to real Carter AFBs performance. Most street cars (this is the street section) need to operate well at all speeds. And my race cars have all used reworked Q Jets, so you can go fast with them also. Other than that I agree 100%..........

The statement is akin this one, "If you want a Pontiac to run, put a chevy in it". Never bought into that one either......

See quote #1 on my Pontiaddict shirt I designed, and sold, for many years:

Well not really but sorta. As you likley know they are different than the station wagon carb. The Holley will idle a bit richer etc [but even that can be tuned out] but the throttle responce will be more noticable. The larger pump shot will cost a bit of fuel mileage, and all things being equal the Holley will be worth a length in the 1/4. Everything is a trade off.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by 00fxd

Well not really but sorta. As you likley know they are different than the station wagon carb. The Holley will idle a bit richer etc [but even that can be tuned out] but the throttle responce will be more noticable. The larger pump shot will cost a bit of fuel mileage, and all things being equal the Holley will be worth a length in the 1/4. Everything is a trade off.

FWIW, every dirt track car that I raced against, without exception, had a holley on it, so how is it I beat a whole bunch of chevys, fords, and mopars with a Q Jet, on a Pontiac, with dual radiators, a T400 transmission? No one else raced anything close to what I did, and just like clockwork, I beat them every week. If you can't think outside of the box, you're doomed to be in the box.

Just to clarify I have run holley carbs on street and race cars, but don't like their tendency to load up when idling. On a street car it has been my experience that you have to keep adjusting them because they don't seem to be able to hold adjustments, such as float level. Plus the tendency of the accelerator pumps to leak fuel onto the intake manifold if the diaphragm leaks, and the bowl gaskets, and bowl screw gaskets tend to dry out and leak fuel. Been plenty of engine fires attributed to holley fuel leaks.

You don't need a holley to win, you, like many others, have been brainwashed to believe you do. The engine does not know what name is on the side of the carb, and it could care less. As long as it gets the correct fuel mixture, at the correct time, it will perform just as well with whatever carb is on it.

One other thing, I never paid for any of my race car carburetor cores, just because of people that think the same way as you do. I was given a bunch of QJ carb cores because someone believed they were going to double their horsepower by switching to a high dollar aftermarket carburetor, and I got their scraps for free.

The cores must be modified for racing, or even high performance street use, it's called sweat equity. If your wallet isn't fat, you work harder to use what you have, and keep the difference.........

[00fxd]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

FWIW, every dirt track car that I raced against, without exception, had a holley on it, so how is it I beat a whole bunch of chevys, fords, and mopars with a Q Jet, on a Pontiac, with dual radiators, a T400 transmission? No one else raced anything close to what I did, and just like clockwork, I beat them every week. If you can't think outside of the box, you're doomed to be in the box.

Just to clarify I have run holley carbs on street and race cars, but don't like their tendency to load up when idling. On a street car it has been my experience that you have to keep adjusting them because they don't seem to be able to hold adjustments, such as float level. Plus the tendency of the accelerator pumps to leak fuel onto the intake manifold if the diaphragm leaks, and the bowl gaskets, and bowl screw gaskets tend to dry out and leak fuel. Been plenty of engine fires attributed to holley fuel leaks.

You don't need a holley to win, you, like many others, have been brainwashed to believe you do. The engine does not know what name is on the side of the carb, and it could care less. As long as it gets the correct fuel mixture, at the correct time, it will perform just as well with whatever carb is on it.

One other thing, I never paid for any of my race car carburetor cores, just because of people that think the same way as you do. I was given a bunch of QJ carb cores because someone believed they were going to double their horsepower by switching to a high dollar aftermarket carburetor, and I got their scraps for free.

The cores must be modified for racing, or even high performance street use, it's called sweat equity. If your wallet isn't fat, you work harder to use what you have, and keep the difference.........

Wow. Take a pill. And re-read my last post.
I also have lots of qjet cores and have no problem using them in the apropriate application. My comments were directed to those who have been "brainwashed" that the comp series edelbrock is the ultimate carb. It is not.

[PontiacJim1959]

Originally Posted by 00fxd

Wow. Take a pill. And re-read my last post.
I also have lots of qjet cores and have no problem using them in the apropriate application. My comments were directed to those who have been "brainwashed" that the comp series edelbrock is the ultimate carb. It is not.

Is any carb the ultimate carb? Marketing has much to do with it - and they all do it. I don't think the Holley is the ultimate carb. What works for one guy may not work for the other guy. Some guys can really dial-in a carb and others can only install what comes out of the box.

I think it also boils down to a personal preference and what works for the individual. A ton of people hate Q-jets, others love them. Many hate the Thermoquad, others wouldn't run anything but. You have Webers, Strombegs, Holleys, Carters, etc.. and you can find supporters and nay sayers for any of them.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by 00fxd

Wow. Take a pill. And re-read my last post.
I also have lots of qjet cores and have no problem using them in the apropriate application. My comments were directed to those who have been "brainwashed" that the comp series edelbrock is the ultimate carb. It is not.

Take a pill for what? ................

My reading comprehension is just fine, and I read every word of all your posts
.
Here are your own initial words:

It's pretty simple. If you want it to run nice and predictable like your moms station wagon you use an AFB/Clone [or if applicable the original Qjet]. If ya wanna go fast you use a Holley.

You have an obvious bias towards holley carbs in a performance application, or did I misinterpret your words?

I've used all of them except for the E carbs, due to the poor reports from early users about their shortcomings. I have used the Carter carbs for years and was looking forward to the E carbs filling in the gaps since Carter went under, but it didn't come out as planned. Edelbrock was able to take a good design that worked well as a daily driver, and a performance carb, and through whatever they did, render it unreliable and mediocre to use in either application. I do happen to agree on that point.

I've even used Autolite 4 bbl carbs on street performance applications also. Fix the shortcomings that the manufacturer didn't get quite right for a performance application, get the jetting right, and it can be used as a performance carb.

There is no appropriate application for each brand of carb. The QJ is one of the most versatile carbs ever made. Used from 230 CU IN to 500 CU IN, on the same basic design. They happen to work well in a performance application also, as long as someone wants to take the time to re-calibrate them to performance use, they are fine. Stockers run 9 seconds with QJ carbs, as rules require them. Ford used QJs as original equipment on their 1970 429 Cobra Jet engine.

Still the street section, so in most street applications the Rochester will be plenty sufficient, and a holley could easily be interchanged, and work equally as well in the timeslip department.

Our QJ expert here on PY, (Cliff Ruggles) will tell you he's tried both holleys, and QJs on his 11 second street strip Ventura, and actually has run just a touch faster with the Rochester carb over the holleys on the dragstrip. We're talking hundreths of a second, but his testing has proven that they stand on equal footing. He also used the Pontiac QJ cast iron intake manifold over aluminum intakes, and went a tad quicker with the cast iron intake.

[Mike Davis]

Originally Posted by 00fxd

It's pretty simple. If you want it to run nice and predictable like your moms station wagon you use an AFB/Clone [or if applicable the original Qjet]. If ya wanna go fast you use a Holley.

Are you sure about that? I have been faster with AFB's than a Holley.

[00fxd]

Originally Posted by Mike Davis

Are you sure about that? I have been faster with AFB's than a Holley.

Pretty sure. There are exceptions to every rule. But I always have great respect for guys that take the the time to make Qjets and AFB's and thier clones go fast. But I stand by my opinion. The sucessesful marketing by Edlebrock dissapointed me from the start. I bought into it years ago when they first brought out that "Compitition Series" trusting Edelbrocks good name for hot rod parts - soon saw the light. Bolt on an 1850 in place and feel the difference.

[Mike Davis]

Originally Posted by 00fxd

Pretty sure. There are exceptions to every rule. But I always have great respect for guys that take the the time to make Qjets and AFB's and thier clones go fast. But I stand by my opinion. The sucessesful marketing by Edlebrock dissapointed me from the start. I bought into it years ago when they first brought out that "Compitition Series" trusting Edelbrocks good name for hot rod parts - soon saw the light. Bolt on an 1850 in place and feel the difference.

Well I went out last week and ran back to back passes. Holley 750's and Carter AFB 750's.

Holley's best of 9.93
AFB's best of 9.79

[00fxd]

Originally Posted by Mike Davis

Well I went out last week and ran back to back passes. Holley 750's and Carter AFB 750's.

Holley's best of 9.93
AFB's best of 9.79

Interesting. What engine, gears and RPM's?
Might be fun to run with 650's.

[Mike Davis]

Originally Posted by 00fxd

Interesting. What engine, gears and RPM's?
Might be fun to run with 650's.

Read my signature
421, 3.90 gears shifting at 7200