[RocktimusPryme]

Just out of curiosity I went to Art Carrs site. For the 200-400 HP 200R4 its $2499 with a 300 core charge, shipping and I dont think that comes with a converter. Add $400 for the 400-600 HP model. Im sure you can probably get that cheaper locally, but by how much? Arent transmission rebuilds just expensive these days period? And do you trust a 200R4 built by someone who isnt an expert specifically on that model? Like I said earlier, Im not one of the guys yelling DONT DO IT with the 200s, but there are only a handful of names I feel good about in that process.

We probably have some transmission rebuilders on the site. I would be curious what real world gets charged for a 200r4 and for a 4l80e to be freshened up. I havent had it done in over a decade, so Im sure I am out of touch. I only ever see the Boutique type shop prices on the internet.

Moral of the story I guess that is that getting overdrive into a classic BOP isnt cheap. Especially if you are making any kind of power.

[Formulajones]

You're right, overdrives aren't cheap no matter which way you go, unless you just happen to have them laying around and the skills to rebuild yourself.

There are all kinds of rebuild kits all over the internet. They range from a couple hundred to several hundred. I used to buy kits wholesale from TransStar years ago. I've rebuilt a few for people I knew and just charged a couple hundred labor plus parts, but I don't make a habit of it. It's somewhat tedious work and a little time consuming, at least my methods are, and I'm not charging enough for it. That labor charge is not the norm however as many mom and pop shops will be closer to $1000. More with bigger name places that critique certain models.

I've built my own stuff for years but when it came to a 4L80E I didn't have a core anymore (had one and sold it like a dummy) and didn't have the time to roam the junk yards. So I called Hughes. They are local, supplied the correct year core I wanted, and built it (850hp version with a few tricks in the older case) That was running around $2000 at the time but prices everywhere have jumped up quite a bit since then. I think just about everyone that offers a fresh 4L80E now like Jakes, Hughes and others are well over the $2000 mark. By the time you do a decent lockup stall converter you're at another $800 minimum and most charge $1200 and up. Controller is $800 (I recommend US Shift), ShiftWorks conversion for most shifters will be close to another $200. If you have fab skills your cross member can be made to work, otherwise another $200-$350 for a custom piece. You can shorten your existing driveshaft and rebalance for about $200 (local to me) but I usually opt for just having a new shaft made that is stronger anyway and that usually runs up around $600. Will sustain higher critical speeds with the overdrive and hold about 1000 HP if you opt for the 1350 joint version. Never have to worry about it.

You can see how it all starts adding up.

[Steve C.]

"Right now I'm leaning towards using the 200 that I have, simply because I already have it. If it breaks, I'll regret it, pitch it in the scrap, and find a 4L80E."

Based on my personal experience consider converting it to a non-lock up torque converter. I can highly recommend the Bowtie Overdrives TV and Throttle Cable SYSTEMS. That is we used on my 200 4R.

[Hillard]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

"Right now I'm leaning towards using the 200 that I have, simply because I already have it. If it breaks, I'll regret it, pitch it in the scrap, and find a 4L80E."

Based on my personal experience consider converting it to a non-lock up torque converter. I can highly recommend the Bowtie Overdrives TV and Throttle Cable SYSTEMS. That is we used on my 200 4R.

Can I ask why make it non-lock up?

[78w72]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

Just out of curiosity I went to Art Carrs site. For the 200-400 HP 200R4 its $2499 with a 300 core charge, shipping and I dont think that comes with a converter. Add $400 for the 400-600 HP model. Im sure you can probably get that cheaper locally, but by how much? Arent transmission rebuilds just expensive these days period? And do you trust a 200R4 built by someone who isnt an expert specifically on that model? Like I said earlier, Im not one of the guys yelling DONT DO IT with the 200s, but there are only a handful of names I feel good about in that process.

We probably have some transmission rebuilders on the site. I would be curious what real world gets charged for a 200r4 and for a 4l80e to be freshened up. I havent had it done in over a decade, so Im sure I am out of touch. I only ever see the Boutique type shop prices on the internet.

Moral of the story I guess that is that getting overdrive into a classic BOP isnt cheap. Especially if you are making any kind of power.

i may be a little out of touch too on prices for a complete 200r, havent checked the art carr site for a few years, looks like the 400hp is $2500 now & the 600hp is the added cost. as with anything in 2021, prices have increased a ridiculous amount, pre covid i bet the 400hp was a few hundred under 2k.

i did just have a th350c rebuilt locally in the last 2-3 years, called around to the big name trans shops, they wanted $600-$800, aamco being the highest & the others were bigger shops that have been around my town for 30-40 years. this is for a basic rebuild, no fancy race parts but included a name brand rebuild kit, 1yr warranty, with me bringing the trans to them. not sure how much more a 200r, 700r, or 4l60/80 would be.

im all for using the better trans if/when its needed. for this situation its going to be cruising around town & doing 70+mph commutes on the highway with 400hp . in this case the 200 would probably be the cheaper & easier install, i recall HPP was doing some articles on 200r swap & you could use a factory x/member, & maybe even the stock driveshaft, no trans tunnel mods & keep the factory shifter.

i fully agree any OD option will be expensive. in this situation, a cheaper & easier way by far would be to just change the rear gear, a 3.08 or 2.73 would be ok except for long interstate trips at 80+mph. & could keep the good th400.

[Hillard]

Originally Posted by 78w72

i may be a little out of touch too on prices for a complete 200r, havent checked the art carr site for a few years, looks like the 400hp is $2500 now & the 600hp is the added cost. as with anything in 2021, prices have increased a ridiculous amount, pre covid i bet the 400hp was a few hundred under 2k.

i did just have a th350c rebuilt locally in the last 2-3 years, called around to the big name trans shops, they wanted $600-$800, aamco being the highest & the others were bigger shops that have been around my town for 30-40 years. this is for a basic rebuild, no fancy race parts but included a name brand rebuild kit, 1yr warranty, with me bringing the trans to them. not sure how much more a 200r, 700r, or 4l60/80 would be.

im all for using the better trans if/when its needed. for this situation its going to be cruising around town & doing 70+mph commutes on the highway with 400hp . in this case the 200 would probably be the cheaper & easier install, i recall HPP was doing some articles on 200r swap & you could use a factory x/member, & maybe even the stock driveshaft, no trans tunnel mods & keep the factory shifter.

i fully agree any OD option will be expensive. in this situation, a cheaper & easier way by far would be to just change the rear gear, a 3.08 or 2.73 would be ok except for long interstate trips at 80+mph. & could keep the good th400.

I intend on taking long interstate trips and running the Silver State Classic with it. So I'll have to bite the bullet and spend the $$.

[Formulajones]

You won't regret the overdrive decision. The initial cost might sting at first but after you drive the car you'll wonder why it wasn't done sooner.

One thing I really like about 200's are the gear ratios. The 2.74 first gear will really help get that big car moving, and the .67 overdrive will work nice with 3.55's.
2100 rpm will be about 70 mph with a 27-ish tall tire.

A lot of builders shy away from the lockup converter on these types of TV cable transmissions mainly because of the way it's activated. Usually electric solenoid via vacuum switch or one of the two. Very hard to adjust them to engage exactly where you want, and behind an engine with a bumpy camshaft can cause chugging when engaged at an inopportune time. Some of the vacuum switches can be tweaked with a small adjustment screw but the range is very limited.

That's where the electronic control transmissions have an advantage, as that lockup feature can now be programmed via computer to engage and disengage anywhere you please.

Even with that said, looking at your current planned build, and I'm sure you already know this, but a ~434-ish engine with a 220/228 @ .050 cam on a 112 should idle pretty darn smooth and produce a ton of vacuum, so I wouldn't suspect chugging with a lockup converter to be an issue.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Hillard

I intend on taking long interstate trips and running the Silver State Classic with it. So I'll have to bite the bullet and spend the $$.

ok wasnt sure on things like that, just a suggestion on a gear change.

[Steve C.]

What Larry said...

"A lot of builders shy away from the lockup converter on these types of TV cable transmissions mainly because of the way it's activated. Usually electric solenoid via vacuum switch or one of the two. Very hard to adjust them to engage exactly where you want, and behind an engine with a bumpy camshaft can cause chugging when engaged at an inopportune time. Some of the vacuum switches can be tweaked with a small adjustment screw but the range is very limited."

At the time I had a lock-up converter installed the cam was either a 260 or 255 @ .050" solid roller with 0.701" or 0.709" lift and a 110 LSA, I don't remember which now. It was "bumpy". That can lead to issues Larry eludes to.

Much will depend on the overall combination but for me personally with bigger cams and anywhere from 635-660 HP the best thing we did early on was to change to a non lock up converter on my 2004R transmission.
That and a proper TV cable hook up.

My non-lock up converter was built by Continental and purchased thru Cliff Ruggles. It is well coupled out on the open highway with about a 200 rpm slippage. The transmission has been in service for almost 12 years.


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[JLBIII]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

What Larry said...
My non-lock up converter was built by Continental and purchased thru Cliff Ruggles. It is well coupled out on the open highway with about a 200 rpm slippage. The transmission has been in service for almost 12 years.

I heard Continental has been shut down for some time now. Any recommendations for a non-locking converter?

[Steve C.]

Lenny is one of the best....

http://www.ultimateconverter.com


Lenny at UCC used to work with Kris at Continental years ago.
A few years ago my non lock up Continental torque converter in my 2004R transmission developed a cracked hub where it is welded into the body.
We sent it to Lenny for repairs.


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