[opeliac]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

A few things to ponder here.

Anyone that thinks by 2022 that Pontiac wouldn't have changed the architecture of the Stratostreak engine is living under a rock. If the division was still around, that engine would have long been abandoned. Even if corporate engines had never come about, (LS series), that engine was doomed by the corporation for replacement.

Pontiac had already engineered an 427 OHC modular engine, and showed the models of it in 1970 that were in Hot Rod magazine. That design was refined by ford, and made into a real working engine.

IMO, stretching the bore centers (which chevy has already done on their BBC) isn't a mortal sin. But then the OEM based stuff isn't going to fit, so you're faced with a completely new engine configuration.

So if you're going for a new engine, Youman probably thought he would buy something that was purpose designed. He had already spent probably twice the amount on an OEM design from early 1950s and still wasn't very competitive in the classes he chose to compete in. Even twin turbos, with some of the best engineered parts available, still couldn't make him competitive in the higher classes. I believe he spent enough of his own money to figure out that it wasn't going to happen, and IMO, he is about as dedicated as anyone that is reading this. There aren't any OEM designs competing in that class that place in the top 3 consistently.

"A man has to know his limitations" comes to mind.

I still don't think a OEM stretched bore center is going to make it in that class, so if someone made the new parts for a long block configuration, would they ever live long enough to see a return on their investment? You have to have customers to get your money back.

Maybe if, someone had the blueprints for the later OHC design, modular engine, and made one of those in billet they'd be staying at least with a factory design that Pontiac had come up with to satisfy their brand loyalty, and maybe have some customers outside of Pontiac fans. But you'd have a huge expense to shoulder in the development stage to get the design competitive, to then build a customer base. Lots of dark areas that would have to be bridged in order to build a customer base for a completely new engine.

Pontiac Jack has done this on a small scale making the "one-off" OHC head for his 4 cylinder Pontiac based lakester. He has had a few setbacks getting it to a stage where he can race, and not have to return home to refine his design further. Watching his work as it progresses is just the tip of the iceberg for a completely new design V8 race engine, that would be based on the modular V8 from the late 60s, early 70s. Jack had the block to start with, so his design is comes from splitting a existing V8 factory aluminum block into a 4 cylinder configuration, and designing an OHC head from scratch. Still a challenging feat, that not many could pull off.

Just saying, " I wish we had ", doesn't pay the bills for the manufacturer.

If you are designing a billet part, does it cost more to design it with a bigger bore space? It seems the return on investment would come into play if the finished product provided results...Would it be something that would become mainstream with high volume sales? Absolutely not...

As for how competitive it could be...Well, its not like Tommy's engine was severely under powered...

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by opeliac

If you are designing a billet part, does it cost more to design it with a bigger bore space? It seems the return on investment would come into play if the finished product provided results...Would it be something that would become mainstream with high volume sales? Absolutely not...

As for how competitive it could be...Well, its not like Tommy's engine was severely under powered...

If you're going for a design to keep up with the top engines already existing, why not one up them by an OHC design?

I still don't believe stretching the bore centers is going to make the Stratosteak engine competitive in that class. It's not apples to apples when you're trying to field a race car that is going to be competitive that isn't going to be run only a few times a year, then you have to wait for parts to be made for your one-off engine.

Youman needs something that he cam source parts rapidly for, not just once a year at Norwalk. I believe he wants to run a series, so waiting for billet parts that break, probably weighed into his choice to go with something that he can have parts for within a week off the shelf.

I'm sure he ran into parts availability already for his race car, plus he wasn't in the top finishers anyway.

He didn't abandon the engine, he's just going to use it in his other car.

This is all fantasy anyway, I don't know anyone currently in the Pontiac hobby that has pockets deep enough to do either option, and be competitive in a race series. Am I right?

[opeliac]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

If you're going for a design to keep up with the top engines already existing, why not one up them by an OHC design?

I still don't believe stretching the bore centers is going to make the Stratosteak engine competitive in that class. It's not apples to apples when you're trying to field a race car that is going to be competitive that isn't going to be run only a few times a year, then you have to wait for parts to be made for your one-off engine.

Youman needs something that he cam source parts rapidly for, not just once a year at Norwalk. I believe he wants to run a series, so waiting for billet parts that break, probably weighed into his choice to go with something that he can have parts for within a week off the shelf.

I'm sure he ran into parts availability already for his race car, plus he wasn't in the top finishers anyway.

He didn't abandon the engine, he's just going to use it in his other car.

This is all fantasy anyway, I don't know anyone currently in the Pontiac hobby that has pockets deep enough to do either option, and be competitive in a race series. Am I right?

Deep enough pockets??? When Kauffman, and Visner are making custom billet pieces, it doesnt take a lottery winner to be able to afford it...Billet engine parts arent gold priced...

The parts availability could very well be issues, but thats going to be a part of pioneering the way...When you look into a trailer and see several spare lock up transmissions, several bolt together converters, and an extra one or two engines sitting there ready to go, it seems there is enough money to deal with parts availability...

[Sirrotica]

So the did custom billet pieces win any national events?

Having the parts doesn't negate the combination wasn't race winning.

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by opeliac

If you are designing a billet part, does it cost more to design it with a bigger bore space? It seems the return on investment would come into play if the finished product provided results...Would it be something that would become mainstream with high volume sales? Absolutely not...

As for how competitive it could be...Well, its not like Tommy's engine was severely under powered...

Certainly not severely under powered, it was severely under managed.. it was a new program and wasn't give the time an resources to be fully competitive. It was under powered based on the competition but not "severely"...