[78w72]

ive always heard that you dont want to grease roller bearings like these or modern pulley bearings in serpentine systems, the thin clear grease they come with is what they are designed for & all thats needed. been told that adding the wrong thick grease like chassis or wheel bearing grease causes the balls to not roll right & can or will make them slide on the race & not roll.

not sure if thats 100% true but ive been told that by reputable long time mechanics as well as bearing manufacturers when i asked about greasing them. yes the factory installed grease can dry up but usually not until the end of its service life, maybe adding some grease at that point can extend the life a bit but ive always trusted the dont add grease thing & left them alone with what they come with. just mentioning what ive heard a lot more than one time on greasing roller bearings.

for removing a pilot bearing thats a bugger to get out i did use the trick of packing the crank bore with grease & using a rod just a tad smaller than the bearing opening to pound it in & have the grease force the bearing out.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by 78w72

ive always heard that you dont want to grease roller bearings like these or modern pulley bearings in serpentine systems, the thin clear grease they come with is what they are designed for & all thats needed. been told that adding the wrong thick grease like chassis or wheel bearing grease causes the balls to not roll right & can or will make them slide on the race & not roll.

not sure if thats 100% true but ive been told that by reputable long time mechanics as well as bearing manufacturers when i asked about greasing them. yes the factory installed grease can dry up but usually not until the end of its service life, maybe adding some grease at that point can extend the life a bit but ive always trusted the dont add grease thing & left them alone with what they come with. just mentioning what ive heard a lot more than one time on greasing roller bearings.

for removing a pilot bearing thats a bugger to get out i did use the trick of packing the crank bore with grease & using a rod just a tad smaller than the bearing opening to pound it in & have the grease force the bearing out.

If the bearing fails from lack of lubrication, not putting grease in will make it last longer? Then you have the fact that they leave one side of the bearing exposed. If you wanted a sealed bearing, why is one side open? So dirt can enter?

You stick to your theory, and I'll continue doing it the way I've done it for 50 years...........

Hopefully you don't replace tapered wheel bearings using the same theory.

I'm wondering why someone would stake the bearing, when it can't move unless the transmission is removed?......... It's pretty much captive as soon as the input shaft is installed.

If someone was worried that it didn't fit tightly, a couple hits with a prick punch on the interior of the crank bore can tighten it in the bore.

Most times I install the bearing, grease it as outlined, and finish the job.

[chuckies76ta]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

I'm wondering why someone would stake the bearing, when it can't move unless the transmission is removed?......... It's pretty much captive as soon as the input shaft is installed.

The only reason I mentioned to stake the bearing as I've had them a bit too loose and staking helps to keep the outer race from rotating. If the bearing installs nice and tight Probably doesn't need to be staked. I assumed if your installing a bearing you know the procedure. That's all. like your little Emoji..

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by chuckies76ta

The only reason I mentioned to stake the bearing as I've had them a bit too loose and staking helps to keep the outer race from rotating. If the bearing installs nice and tight Probably doesn't need to be staked. I assumed if your installing a bearing you know the procedure. That's all. like your little Emoji..

My father, also a mechanic all his life, showed me that if a bearing doesn't fit well, then you use a prick punch to raise the mating surface so it does fit tight.
I guess two ways to arrive at the same end. That bit of advice he gave me has been invaluable many times over the years. They hadn't invented Loctite bearing mount yet....

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

If the bearing fails from lack of lubrication, not putting grease in will make it last longer? Then you have the fact that they leave one side of the bearing exposed. If you wanted a sealed bearing, why is one side open? So dirt can enter?

You stick to your theory, and I'll continue doing it the way I've done it for 50 years...........

Hopefully you don't replace tapered wheel bearings using the same theory.

I'm wondering why someone would stake the bearing, when it can't move unless the transmission is removed?......... It's pretty much captive as soon as the input shaft is installed.

If someone was worried that it didn't fit tightly, a couple hits with a prick punch on the interior of the crank bore can tighten it in the bore.

Most times I install the bearing, grease it as outlined, and finish the job.

well its not "my theory" its what ive been told for years by many reputable life long mechanics & when i asked the tech dept at a bearing company. i used a pilot bearing for my car & when i saw the open back & thin clear grease i thought the same thing about adding grease, they said do not do that as its not designed for random grease to be injected at an unknown or excessive amount, they use a special grease intended for the purpose. there is a lot of info out there supporting that & they all say the same thing, that thick grease in a roller bearing like these makes the balls not rotate as designed & they will skid along the race causing excessive heat, wear & shortened life. so i chose to go with what the manufacturer recommended & trust what my mechanic friends say... im not suggesting the bearing will fail right away by adding grease & im sure its worked for you in the past, but its not what the manufacturer says to do & apparently a lot of other people & mechanics that have been doing this just as long as you know about it too.

not much dirt is able to get into the area of a pilot bearing, when i removed mine at ~50k miles & 40+ years old the inside of the crank bore was basically spotless & the bearing itself was very clean looking. these pilot bearings arent designed or needed to be sealed...

& a tapered wheel bearing is completely different than a roller bearing... they are designed for thick wheel bearing grease & operate a little different than a ball bearing, the comment about "hope you dont replace tapered bearings using the same theory" makes no sense since they are not the same type of bearing & obviously dont come pre lubed with a specific grease & require packing with wheel bearing grease.

lots of people do things different than what the manufacturer or repair manual says to do, i do it too sometimes & it usually "works" ok, but that doesnt mean its what the engineers & manufacturers of the part recommend to do.

EDIT: i just called timken to confirm what they suggest for this, spoke to the auto tech dept & asked about greasing a pilot bearing for a 1978 firebird & he looked up the part #. he said they specifically do not recommend adding any grease to these, they are supplied with a special synthetic grease that lasts the life of the bearing. i asked if it would be ok to put some other grease like chassis or wheel bearing grease & he said its not recommended & then repeated what ive heard & mentioned above, it will or can cause the ball bearing to not roll & rotate right & cause heat & premature wear. straight from the horses mouth. do what you want but i will leave my pilot bearing as designed & if/when it fails or the grease dries up i will buy another one for a few bucks.

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by 78w72

well its not "my theory" its what ive been told for years by many reputable life long mechanics & when i asked the tech dept at a bearing company. i used a pilot bearing for my car & when i saw the open back & thin clear grease i thought the same thing about adding grease, they said do not do that as its not designed for random grease to be injected at an unknown or excessive amount, they use a special grease intended for the purpose. there is a lot of info out there supporting that & they all say the same thing, that thick grease in a roller bearing like these makes the balls not rotate as designed & they will skid along the race causing excessive heat, wear & shortened life. so i chose to go with what the manufacturer recommended & trust what my mechanic friends say... im not suggesting the bearing will fail right away by adding grease & im sure its worked for you in the past, but its not what the manufacturer says to do & apparently a lot of other people & mechanics that have been doing this just as long as you know about it too.

not much dirt is able to get into the area of a pilot bearing, when i removed mine at ~50k miles & 40+ years old the inside of the crank bore was basically spotless & the bearing itself was very clean looking. these pilot bearings arent designed or needed to be sealed...

& a tapered wheel bearing is completely different than a roller bearing... they are designed for thick wheel bearing grease & operate a little different than a ball bearing, the comment about "hope you dont replace tapered bearings using the same theory" makes no sense since they are not the same type of bearing & obviously dont come pre lubed with a specific grease & require packing with wheel bearing grease.

lots of people do things different than what the manufacturer or repair manual says to do, i do it too sometimes & it usually "works" ok, but that doesnt mean its what the engineers & manufacturers of the part recommend to do.

EDIT: i just called timken to confirm what they suggest for this, spoke to the auto tech dept & asked about greasing a pilot bearing for a 1978 firebird & he looked up the part #. he said they specifically do not recommend adding any grease to these, they are supplied with a special synthetic grease that lasts the life of the bearing. i asked if it would be ok to put some other grease like chassis or wheel bearing grease & he said its not recommended & then repeated what ive heard & mentioned above, it will or can cause the ball bearing to not roll & rotate right & cause heat & premature wear. straight from the horses mouth. do what you want but i will leave my pilot bearing as designed & if/when it fails or the grease dries up i will buy another one for a few bucks.

Funny....I've run wheel bearing grease in my '65 for the past 38 years without any service at all.....and about 50, 000 miles. I've also run wheel bearing grease in all my older cars that have----guess what?-----ball bearing wheel bearings. My Ford T, and my '61 Corvette. Ball bearings. Yet the wheel bearing grease works just fine. Funny how that is.....

[78w72]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Funny....I've run wheel bearing grease in my '65 for the past 38 years without any service at all.....and about 50, 000 miles. I've also run wheel bearing grease in all my older cars that have----guess what?-----ball bearing wheel bearings. My Ford T, and my '61 Corvette. Ball bearings. Yet the wheel bearing grease works just fine. Funny how that is.....

not quite sure what your comments are referring to, of course you use wheel bearing grease in wheel bearings, tapered or ball bearing. what you quoted in bold was my reply to the comment about "hope you dont replace tapered wheel bearings using the same theory"... wheel bearings are designed for wheel bearing grease, pilot bearings are not, at least not the ones we are talking about here, & that was confirmed by timken. funny how when you post facts by the manufacturer the ones arguing thats not how to do it go silent.

i said that using wheel bearing or chassis grease in a pilot bearing wont cause it to self destruct, just stating they are not designed to use it for the reason timken & many others say. they come pre lubed with the correct type of grease, add whatever type & amount you want, but doubting what the engineers that design them say to use doesnt really make much sense IMO.

[Bluesugar]

just put a dab of grease(hi-temp)in the cranks recess and around the bearing and install.Done!! You do not want excess lube to be thrown on to the clutch.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by 78w72

not quite sure what your comments are referring to, of course you use wheel bearing grease in wheel bearings, tapered or ball bearing. what you quoted in bold was my reply to the comment about "hope you dont replace tapered wheel bearings using the same theory"... wheel bearings are designed for wheel bearing grease, pilot bearings are not, at least not the ones we are talking about here, & that was confirmed by timken. funny how when you post facts by the manufacturer the ones arguing thats not how to do it go silent.

i said that using wheel bearing or chassis grease in a pilot bearing wont cause it to self destruct, just stating they are not designed to use it for the reason timken & many others say. they come pre lubed with the correct type of grease, add whatever type & amount you want, but doubting what the engineers that design them say to use doesn't really make much sense IMO.

I'm not silent, not in the least. Ball bearing wheel bearings were used in pre 62 Pontiacs, and they used wheel bearing grease. Wheel bearing grease is the same stuff I've used for pilot bearings, and will continue to if I ever have the need to. I had all the same points Jeff made typed out, but he said what I had typed in a response. Not to be redundant I didn't respond, so you think I was silenced by the post you made...LOL, not quite.

I've worked in maintenance shop, we had many pieces of equipment that had ball bearings in it, guess what we used to lube it, wheel bearing grease.

The points you make have little merit, so I'm not going to argue back and forth about grease, to dignify your remarks. I know what works, I don't need your blessings, or the guy that answers the phone on the tech line at Timken.

Not everyone uses Timken bearings. I've taken other brands of pilot bearings out of the wrappers that were dry. So in that case, would you install them dry?

I know that what I've been doing for 50 + years are good practices, I know that wheel bearing grease works fine for pilot bearings in a Pontiac. Jeff told you the exact same thing that I did. He and I have close to 100 years spinning wrenches in the automotive field. Maybe you can BS a newbie about your claims, but we're far from newbies.

This isn't the first time you've tried to contradict advice I've given on this forum. Who goes to the trouble to call Timken, to deliver second hand information just to be contrary to a post I made?

If you disagree with my advice, just block me so you don't have to see it.

I try to be helpful to people on this board by posting tips and things that make working on these cars easier, gained from my father that worked at a Pontiac dealer in the 30s, until he retired in the late 70s. Plus my own experience that I've gained since I graduated from high school/trade school in 1970. I don't give out bad advice to members, and I made a living doing it for 50 years, plus built, and drove my own race cars as my hobby. I have a understanding of what works, and what doesn't.

FWIW, I've seen engineers make mistakes too, they're only human. I wouldn't put all my trust in choice of grease, just because someone has a piece of sheepskin on their wall. Common sense doesn't come with a degree.