[John V.]

I realize it's been a few weeks since the last post, but I was bored and came across this thread.

I'll add a few thoughts.

The VIN is most likely original to the car. The VIN car was final assembled at Lordstown. I believe the Time Built code matching the VIN may have been 11A.

I have logged 223679U601717 but unfortunately I did not log the Time Built code for that entry so can only estimate the Time Built code from the very few 6 cyl builds I've logged from Lordstown.

The Invoice No. PLB844738 would have been for a Firebird shipped on 7/7/69 as noted on the bogus PHS.

There is no plausible way that U601719 was invoiced on that date and in any event, the Invoice No. for it would have a Lordstown prefix such as PUA or PUB, not the Van Nuys PLB prefix from the bogus PHS.

My guess, the PHS record was for a Van Nuys produced real TA Convert and the VIN was perhaps the only thing that was doctored. The Smoke Signals story stated that many of the TA parts were taken from a TA coupe being parted in the '90s. Possibly that TA is the source of the PHS VIN record although it would have required additional doctoring beyond the VIN (Model, Base Price, etc.).

The real VIN matching the PHS and Invoice No. would have been very close to L119000.

The Data Plate may reflect original coding with the exception of the D80A. As noted, Lordstown Firebird production ended in March '69 and Trans Am production began in May '69. So a TA purported to be from Lordstown is clearly bogus.

The Body No. LOR514452 would make sense for a Lordstown 11-A (Nov '68) build. The PHS record for the VIN would determine if the Paint and Trim codes were correct for that VIN.

But the D80A was never coded on a Lordstown Data Plate.

All that aside, it is a beautiful car. Tough for me to estimate value because the auto trans is an absolute deal breaker for me. Had it been a 4 spd I would be hard pressed to question the asking price.

I think it may have been a mistake to have swapped out the original Data Plate. I'd rather that the car had retained its born with Data Plate.

I also would guess that OHC6 fans would be bummed to think that a low mileage OHC6 'bird was converted to TA spec.

A '69 TA convert is uber rare. But how many '69 OHC6 'bird converts do you see these days? I wonder if the original driveline was retained?

Doctoring the PHS is questionable. I can't think of any reason to do that other than to deceive. You could display an undoctored TA PHS and claim this car was restored to resemble it. But when you change the VIN on the PHS, you are attempting to suggest the record is for the car as built.

The buyer will eventually establish the value. 25 years ago who among us foresaw some of the selling prices we've seen lately? No matter what price this car changes hands for today, nobody knows if that will be considered highway robbery or a bargain a decade from now.

[einstein]

Originally Posted by John V.

I have logged 223679U601717 but unfortunately I did not log the Time Built code for that entry so can only estimate the Time Built code from the very few 6 cyl builds I've logged from Lordstown.

The Invoice No. PLB844738 would have been for a Firebird shipped on 7/7/69 as noted on the bogus PHS.

There is no plausible way that U601719 was invoiced on that date and in any event, the Invoice No. for it would have a Lordstown prefix such as PUA or PUB, not the Van Nuys PLB prefix from the bogus PHS.

My guess, the PHS record was for a Van Nuys produced real TA Convert and the VIN was perhaps the only thing that was doctored. The Smoke Signals story stated that many of the TA parts were taken from a TA coupe being parted in the '90s. Possibly that TA is the source of the PHS VIN record although it would have required additional doctoring beyond the VIN (Model, Base Price, etc.).

The real VIN matching the PHS and Invoice No. would have been very close to L119000.

The Data Plate may reflect original coding with the exception of the D80A. As noted, Lordstown Firebird production ended in March '69 and Trans Am production began in May '69. So a TA purported to be from Lordstown is clearly bogus.

The Body No. LOR514452 would make sense for a Lordstown 11-A (Nov '68) build. The PHS record for the VIN would determine if the Paint and Trim codes were correct for that VIN.

I believe all 8 convert TAs were Norwood built.

All 20 Van Nuys built TAs were coupes. I owned one many years ago, VIN was in the L119xxx range, was the second one in the sequence. I believe the one before was on the L118xxx range.

My 69 Firebird Sprint convertible was built in mid-December 1968 and has a VIN over U603xxx. I also, for a time, owned a 69 OHC6 non-Sprint coupe VIN U604000 which I parted out in the 90s. As I recall, it was built in mid-March 1969.