[HWYSTR455]

[QUOTE=Va68goat;6368471]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I remember now, it was on VA68goat's engine, normally adjusted, the poly hex area contacted the rocker body. In his engine diags thread, a pic was posted of the witness mark.


I think the suspected "witness mark" was actually a wrench mark on the scorpion rockers I had at the time. I think Paul ruled that out early on. Remember it was the collapsed piston skirt that happened when the pickup tube fell off on the dyno. I still have pictures of the rockers on my other laptop. The rockers never touched the tapped the valve cover.

Go back and look at the pics, the hex on the polys were contacting the rockers, I remember moving them around and watched them contact, think it might even be on your thread. Understand it wasn't the core issue, but it was happening.

.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

HOLY CRAP! Half the tip of the valve is worn away, and the retainer has all kinds of witness marks! I bet the tip of the roller fell off the edge of the valve tip and hung up.

Pull a rocker that didn't let go and take the same pics, as well as the underside of the rocker, bet you will see the same thing.


.

That's how I see it too. Seriously side-loaded on contact. Would love to see the roller and underside of the rocker as I suspect the end of the trunnion slot is going to mangled from overtravel binding due to the geometry issue. Also, marks on the pushrods below the normal guide plate scuffing would indicate pushrods contacting the slots cast in the heads. This all could have started the ball rolling with the lifter getting displaced. The fact that both lifter bores broke says the OP "won the lifter lottery" and had both lifter wheels fail simultaneously, wedging both lifter into the cam.

To the OP, since you're convinced the builder is not guilty of any oversight, you should pull that motor out, disassemble and inspect. Hopefully you have a reusable crank, rods and pistons. I would seriously reconsider an HFT cam. Your intent was to build a car that is fast and reliable that can be driven confidently on a regular basis. If you run a high ZDDP content oil and use the additive, I don't see the downside. Were I in your shoes, I wouldn't go back to hydraulic roller and would also put Pontiac style rocker arms with RAIV spec pushrods on it.

There is a guy in the parts section selling a Comp AH10 HFT with Comp Magnum lifters that says it has 7-10 runs on it and it's cheap. That is a very strong cam for a 455. If he kept the lifters in order, you would have the benefit of a cam and lifters that have been broken in without failure and save a bundle toward fixing what you have. It will make all the right noises and be fast as stink for a lot less money.

[PAUL K]

Valve float causes valvetrain separation. The cam has approximately 58 chances a second to knock a wheel of the bottom of a lifter when it's floating... My guess is the the valves floated and knocked the wheels off the bottom of some lifters. It takes a lot of effort to reliably spin a HR set up to 7,000 rpm or more. I can tell from the pictures this valvetrain is not designed to turn anywhere near that number.

Not sure why several folks seem hung up on the use of BBC rocker arms. One of our own members here has been successful using BBC rockers on his build for several years. If you start inquiring you will find most aftermarket rocker arms are based off a Chevy or Ford design and labeled Pontiac. A rocker arm has no idea what brand engine it is designed for.

The builder has already "cowboy'd up" and offered to repair the engine for the cost of parts before he even saw the issue. I'm betting he helps the OP a lot more than he should considering the situation.

Carry on!

[JSchmitz]

I don't know how people are diagnosing it by the pictures. Looks like pools of oil making it appear as wear. My $.02

[68WarDog]

"I will never, ever, run roller lifters or roller rockers in a StratoStreak engine. "

Can you please explain that quote?. Pontiac as with any other block, with good preparation and proper valve train geometry should survive most roller configuration, even solid rollers.

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by 68WarDog

"I will never, ever, run roller lifters or roller rockers in a StratoStreak engine. "

Can you please explain that quote?. Pontiac as with any other block, with good preparation and proper valve train geometry should survive most roller configuration, even solid rollers.

Certainly. I have zero need to. I am happy with running HFT camshafts and running my engines for decades-on-end and many thousands of miles without so much as pulling a valve cover. I prefer reliable, healthy performance that is suited to street driving and long, cross country trips. Not into high strung, expensive, gas guzzling monster engines in street driven cars of mine.

[64speed]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

I don't know how people are diagnosing it by the pictures. Looks like pools of oil making it appear as wear. My $.02

THIS!!!!!! I am sitting here looking at these pieces and feeling them. There is nothing amiss with the build. My dumbass overrevved it exponentially and then I compounded it by driving it another half mile.

[64speed]

These are the absolute least flattering pictures I can take. No witness marks. The grit on the rocker is bore debris

[tom s]

did you notice the wear spot on the roller tip is off to the side?Tom

[Va68goat]

[QUOTE=HWYSTR455;6368491]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Go back and look at the pics, the hex on the polys were contacting the rockers, I remember moving them around and watched them contact, think it might even be on your thread. Understand it wasn't the core issue, but it was happening.

.

I went back and found the pictures. The guys that saw this in person and in photos thought this was a wrench mark of some sort and not a clearance issue. I doubt Paul would have missed this during assembly.

[64speed]

In a few weeks I am taking everything to Wayne. He will inspect it an tell me what’s reusable and what’s not. We’ve been friends a while and I trust him. If it’s his fault he will own up to it. I suspect the heads crank rods and pistons are fine. I will get that cam fixed and use the absolute best lifters I can get. That cam was matched to my total combination. We will see from there

[JSchmitz]

[QUOTE=Va68goat;6368629]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I went back and found the pictures. The guys that saw this in person and in photos thought this was a wrench mark of some sort and not a clearance issue. I doubt Paul would have missed this during assembly.

I don't disagree that the damage could be a wrench kiss. But the setscrew sticking out of the rocker arm nut looks like short pushrods to me. Or the trunnion was upside down. Either way, something was not right there.

[P@blo]

Okay no one cares but someone one day will.

[tom s]

That has not changed on roller cams for like 70 years!As I said,when roller cams get to 200 at 200 they need a lifter bore brace.No hyd roller cam I have seen gets too that radical stage.Tom

[Dragncar]

[QUOTE=Va68goat;6368629]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I went back and found the pictures. The guys that saw this in person and in photos thought this was a wrench mark of some sort and not a clearance issue. I doubt Paul would have missed this during assembly.

If those are die cast Crane roller rockers I would not use them on a engine I cared about.

[GTOLou]

I missed - but are the lunati rollers hydraulic or solid??

[64speed]

Originally Posted by GTOLou

I missed - but are the lunati rollers hydraulic or solid??

Hydraulic

[Va68goat]

[QUOTE=Dragncar;6368690]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

If those are die cast Crane roller rockers I would not use them on a engine I cared about.

I think they were made by Scorpion. I ended up switching to Crower 1.65 rockers. Though it wasn't the source of the issue I had at the time, I think it was a good improvement for the build!

[64speed]

Ok is everybody ready to roll on the floor laughing? I am having Wayne do the machine work and I am gonna do assembly myself. I have the tools, I used to have the knowledge haha, and I can take my time and do it at my leisure and income. I am having the cam repaired by Isky but the rest of the build consists of having the crank resized and cam bearings and boring out the new block. I have everything I need and this time I will not have anyone to blame but myself. I am looking at the Crower stainless steel rockers but I am up in the air about lifters. Does anyone have direct experience that they can relay. I will be driving this car not everyday but a LOT and I need endurance. I am also buying an MSD box

[tom s]

I have been using Harland and Sharp rockers for 22 years in everyone of my builds,have ran both 1.50 and 1.65 with as high as 200 on the seats with not one issue.I have a engine going together right now with a set.FWIW,Tom