['ol Pinion head]

ANOTHER THEAD OFF iN THE WEEDS!

The original post was about the dozen or so RA4 GTO's, GTO Judges, & at least one '69 RA4 Trans Am up for sale at this weeks Mecum Auction in Kissimmee, Florida!

[Mcronk]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

ANOTHER THEAD OFF iN THE WEEDS!

The original post was about the dozen or so RA4 GTO's, GTO Judges, & at least one '69 RA4 Trans Am up for sale at this weeks Mecum Auction in Kissimmee, Florida!

Forgive us old guys as our minds tend to drift! LOL You can catch up on the Mecum auction on this site. I have been posting updates. Heading back on Thrusday and Friday when all the top shelf GTOs/Judges/RAIV cars are going across.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/suns...gtoassociation

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The 2 1970 Ram4 Jverts , and even probably the 69 TA Ram4, are cars that will probably never see open road use again .
Unless they become extremely devalued in 20-30 years.

I like the Blue Jvert better, but the OO is likely going to bring more money.
Mcronk if you are able to view them both, could you let us know if the Blue car is on par with the quality of the OO car.

I know the OO car is pretty much top notch.
And so is the 69 TA

Do they keep all these cars indoors during the whole event ?

How does the parking/storage work for auction cars during the event ?
Is indoor parking an extra cost option ?

Are these cars on-site for viewing for the whole duration ?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The car I am most curious about what it brings is the Blue 68 GTO Ram2 car.
Have never seen a 68 Ram2 GTO bring what I felt they should in finished form.
Maybe I have missed a couple of their results though.

If Aegena Blue doesn't strike a big number at this event , it never will.
Its money should be just a little under a Ram4 Judge.
Higher than a Ram 4 GTO

Immensely rare from the word go, and with ultra ultra low survival ratio.
GrandDaddy of the RoundPorts

[Mcronk]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

The car I am most curious about what it brings is the Blue 68 GTO Ram2 car.
Have never seen a 68 Ram2 GTO bring what I felt they should in finished form.
Maybe I have missed a couple of their results though.

If Aegena Blue doesn't strike a big number at this event , it never will.
Its money should be just a little under a Ram4 Judge.
Higher than a Ram 4 GTO

Immensely rare from the word go, and with ultra ultra low survival ratio.
GrandDaddy of the RoundPorts

You may recall I own one of the RA II cars on your list. I have been very interested in seeing this car that Jim Mattison formerly owned. This car was sold at BJ auction in 2016 for $132k. Also at that same auction another RA II GTO sold for $110k. I shared posts on this site with another RA II owner who had a convertible. That car was also on your list. It sold maybe 2 years ago for over six figures but not quite what the Mattison car brought.

You rarely see these cars at auctions. It is hard to place a market value because there were so few made and a lot fewer survived. They have no badging, decals, wings, etc that lets you know they are nothing more than a standar GTO. They made a lot more Judges but they are more widely known. Like you said the RA II started the round port engine family. From RAII, RAIV, 455 HO to the 455 SD.

I spent a lot of time inspecting the Aegean Blue car. Took lots of detailed pictures to assist in my restoration. I will say I was dissapointed in how the car has been kept up. You will note that in the online pictures the car was driven through a mud puddle for picture taking. There are mud stains on the tires, mud in the fender wells, and mud on the frame. That mud is still on the car as it was displayed a few days ago. It is in the glass building with the Como cars and is part of the Lindley collection. The car is also leaking anti freeze from the thermostat housing and collecting on the lifter valley pan. Engine paint has been "washed" off where the antifreeze has seeped on the timing cover/water pump seal. The hidden headlights are not closing. Not sure if it is vacum leak or what. It never ceases to amaze me how many times I see cars displayed like this at the auction.

The overall finish and fit is as good as any of the Como cars. I found a couple of very slight imperfections in the paint but it is at least a 6 year old paint job. The car does wear RAIV manifolds (68 RA II are different design, part number, and was the last year to use the thermostatically controlled heat riser). I am by no means a RA II expert but have been researching these cars ever since I became interested in them. They are almost "mystical" as to why they even existed considering the time frame and the RAIV was ready to go for 69.

I will watch this car go across the stage on Thursday. It is going to be one of 3 round port GTOs that day. The others are a 71 455 HO and a 70 RAIV. The Como cars go across on Friday. Not sure if it would be better to go before or after the Como cars. My feelings are the car may not be "appreciated" for what it is. With all the hype on the Judges and RAIV cars it may get "lost". Only those who really know will understand what a RA II is. The color combo is good (very important at auctions) and the overall quality is very good. It is disappointing the car was not displayed in top form. Mecum has their estimate at $180k to $220k for the RA II. The Como collection 69 RAIV at $180k to $210k and $200k to $230k for the 70 RAIV. It is going to be very interesting to see these cars go across. I will be there.

However with that said this auction is bringing crazy money for GTOs. There are about two dozen Judges and almost a dozen RAIV GTOs. More than any auction has ever had. I guess if this car was going to bring high dollar this would be the right time and place. I just wish it was detailed properly.

[455dan]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

The car I am most curious about what it brings is the Blue 68 GTO Ram2 car.
Have never seen a 68 Ram2 GTO bring what I felt they should in finished form.
Maybe I have missed a couple of their results though.

If Aegena Blue doesn't strike a big number at this event , it never will.
Its money should be just a little under a Ram4 Judge.
Higher than a Ram 4 GTO

Immensely rare from the word go, and with ultra ultra low survival ratio.
GrandDaddy of the RoundPorts

Sold 230 K Gorgeous

They said it was owned at one time by Jim Wangers as well?

[tigergto]

Originally Posted by 455dan

Sold 230 K Gorgeous

They said it was owned at one time by Jim Wangers as well?

That was a mis speak by John Kraman. He later corrected himself and said he meant Jim Mattison.

[Mcronk]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

The 2 1970 Ram4 Jverts , and even probably the 69 TA Ram4, are cars that will probably never see open road use again .
Unless they become extremely devalued in 20-30 years.

I like the Blue Jvert better, but the OO is likely going to bring more money.
Mcronk if you are able to view them both, could you let us know if the Blue car is on par with the quality of the OO car.

I know the OO car is pretty much top notch.
And so is the 69 TA

Do they keep all these cars indoors during the whole event ?

How does the parking/storage work for auction cars during the event ?
Is indoor parking an extra cost option ?

Are these cars on-site for viewing for the whole duration ?

I have looked over both these cars and even checked block codes/VIN on OO car. The OO car is finished nicer than the Atol Blue car. Atol Blue car is nice but just not quite the same level of detail.

The Como collection is in a climate controlled glass building they assemble for the auction. The Atol Blue car is in a tent behind the glass building. It is however on pavement instead of on grass. Cars get very dusty outside of the glass building. They are moving cars in and out of the tents as their time slots come up which creates dust/dirt.

The main attraction cars are generally in place the entire acution. Some of the others like feature cars or star cars may not arrive till later. We spoke to one of the Mecum employees on the first day. There was no way there were 4,000 cars being displayed. We were told all cars would be checked in by Tuesday (yesterday). Logistically they seem to stagger cars later in the auction to arrive on site later.

The higher profile cars have the most expensive time slots. Those cars are generally stored either in one of the buildings or the glass building indoors. You will find Winged cars, Sheblys, Hemis etc outside under the tents too. There are so many cars a lot of the cars are not even under a tent and in a field.

Once a car goes across the stage it is either sold or goes to Bid Goes On. In the past Bid Goes On cars were located in one area. However this year they used a lot of their storage area to display the additional cars added to the auction. I saw BGO cars taken back to their original spots. A friend was there yesterday and said they were trying to locate all the BGO cars in one place. Cars that were sold initially went back to their original display spots. We are seeing car transporters leaving the auction with cars that sold. Honestly I don't think they could expand this acution anymore than they have at this location. Parking for attendees was maxed out and they were using shuttles to get people to the entrance gates. It will be a train wreck this Saturday when all the spectators show up. A couple of pics of Atol Blue Judge convertible I took.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Thanks Mcronk !

Sounds like Friday will be gridlock packed , and Saturday will need helicopters to get in or out..
Could get a state of emergency declared from the governor .

Shameful they are letting ol Blue present that way.
The pictures were bad enough , seems like 10 minutes with a couple buckets of water wouldn't be too much to ask !
Mighty-Vac the headlight doors closed and cap off the lines.
Or a new headlight switch for pre-auction prep.

Since it is probably his cheapest car , they didn't put any focus on it.

I don't remember which car went for 110k
Do remember the VooDoo 4spd Vert that was frame-off restored on here by PY member. It went for low-bucks.
The fees count from peoples pocket, but I don't consider them in the valuation.
Just the hammer number.

Had thought ol Blue had its original exh manifolds with spring riser preserved during restore on here. Maybe I am mistaken, or maybe they got reappointed before it changed hands afterwards.
I do think they were previously intact.

Muddy, dropped headlight doors, t-stat residual decay ,,,will probably cost a 10-25k hit in this scenario.
It will still be an expensive car to buy, but might win an award for best money spent by the time its all over.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

In your pics it looks like they did get some of the mud off the 68.
Maybe not all of it.

I guess the chain went
yellow66gto - restored car , sold low-buck on eBay (70's or 80's no fees)
Mattison was the eBay winner - I suppose ?
JM sold it in Vegas to Lindley for approx 110-115k (no fees)

If it were sitting as it was when yellow66 sold it
I would put hammer value at 160-175k , no fees.
But its not.

EDIT : I got mixed up on the previous auction picture you posted. The Vegas ad was for an upcoming event in 2020. Not the 2016 Northeast event where it was sold. I guess you captured the screenshot in 2020.
So there might have been another owner between JM and Lindley , I don't know.

[Mcronk]

The lighting was very different for the Sandalwood interior shots. One was indoors under flourescent lighting. The other two were outdoors under tents.
I have 3 different cars with Sandalwood interiors. One looks way to bright. The other two look similar. Matching factory colors is very difficult these days. Paint stores and materials have changed a lot. Fifty plus year old interiors fade/gas out. Moisture stains the vinyl, etc. Here are the 3 pictures for review. First is 71 455 HO, second is 70 Mint Turquoise, and last is survivor 70 Judge.

[Mcronk]

I was there today too inspect these cars and watch them go through.

The RAIV T/A was nicely done. With some proper detailing could be concours quality. I did not inspect underneath the car. Buyers premium is 10%, sellers is also 10%. Sellers premium can be "negotiated" based on several factors. If you are bringing a collection of high dollar cars that is definitely a way to negotiate or negate the sellers premium. Sometimes they will approach the seller when cars have stalled near their reserve and "negotiate" to get the car sold. That is why they want you on the stage when your car(s) go across.

72 Formula HO was a mess. A lot of black spray paint on everything. Cracked chrome surrounds on grills etc. The 71 GTO 455 HO was ok. Hood hinges were shot and you had to hold the hood up just to look at engine. A lot of these cars are "built" to sell at the auctions and were wrong parts and incorrect finishes. They are built to make a profit.

Ole Blue shocked me! I figured it would not get past $150k. However there was a slight "bidding war" between two people on the car. The auctioneer had to "work" the bidders to get that money. Fortunately they did get the headlight doors to close. Double checked and car does not have 68 era exhaust manifolds. See pics of my RA II manifold and one on Aegean Blue car. They did nothing to clean up the antifreeze leaking from thermostat or finish cleaning the mud spatter of frame. It is a shame it was not detailed properly but this crowd did not seem to mind. I do think that the car once being owned by Jim Mattison had an impact on the bidding. I spoke with a friend of the owner and he told me the car was owned by one other person after Mattison sold it before the current owner bought it. It brought very good money and was "timed" perfectly. We shall see how this number holds up tomorrow when the Como cars go through.

A 78 and 77 T/A from the same collection went through The 77 brought $100k hammer price. Another Lindley car the Stralight Black 70 RA IV car hammered at $110,500. Again these were not concours level cars. The 69 CR Judge was a total mess. Kinked hood, rust bubbling on hood, bottom of doors, engine paint wrong and compartment very dirty. It hammered at $77k. The Starlight Black 69 Judge was a little better condition and went hammered at $102k. A couple of years ago these would have been a lot less. His winged Mopar collection was in much better condition. Two of them went through today and hammered at $750k and $775k. He has a lot more of those on the list tomorrow.

Another very pretty car was the 70 GTO RAIII 4 speed car in Palladium/Black. Very smooth/shiny paint. It hammered at 145k, very strong money for a RA III GTO 4 speed.

I have been doing updates of the auction on the Southeast GTOAA chapter facebook page if you are interested in other Pontiacs and auction sales.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Mcronk

Another very pretty car was the 70 GTO RAIII 4 speed car in Palladium/Black. Very smooth/shiny paint. It hammered at 145k, very strong money for a RA III GTO 4 speed

Wow !
Has the Buildsheet and was a basic YS Auto AC car.
Has a lot of extra bells and whistles added and a really nice restoration.
It still retains the Automatic as pictured, with add-on RamAir
That is Bionic Money for the vehicle


Bunch of other GTO's today , and majority did well to really well.
Tomorrow is a full buffet of top shelfers.
10 RamAir IV cars tomorrow

I cannot find the OO Blk Top & Int Jvert listed - that is pictured next to the 70 Atoll Ram4 survivor.

EDIT : why did I have the saddle interior , gold top OO Ram4 Jvert in my head as being the one at this event. ?
The car I was trying to "find" parked next to Atoll Judge -- is the OO Ram4 Jvert from Cocoma Collection.
That's been publicized EVERYWHERE for months
dammmm what a blunder !!

[Mcronk]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Wow !
Has the Buildsheet and was a basic YS Auto AC car.
Has a lot of extra bells and whistles added and a really nice restoration.
It still retains the Automatic as pictured, with add-on RamAir
That is Bionic Money for the vehicle


Bunch of other GTO's today , and majority did well to really well.
Tomorrow is a full buffet of top shelfers.
10 RamAir IV cars tomorrow

I cannot find the OO Blk Top & Int Jvert listed - that is pictured next to the 70 Atoll Ram4 survivor.

EDIT : why did I have the saddle interior , gold top OO Ram4 Jvert in my head as being the one at this event. ?
The car I was trying to "find" parked next to Atoll Judge -- is the OO Ram4 Jvert from Cocoma Collection.
That's been publicized EVERYWHERE for months
dammmm what a blunder !!

It was confusing how the information on the 70 Palladium was presented. It said with RA III equipment. It did not say it was a RA III. It did not say the equipment was added either. Sneaky. In my opinion the paint job on the color sealed the deal. One of the most mirror like. However when I went over it with my body gauge there is a reason it is so smooth. Several of the 303 detailing guys asked what I was using to inspect the paint. They said of all the people they see I was only the second one they had seen doing that.