[DogMeister]

How's the idle on the Ram Air III cam? Thinking about upgrading the dinky cam and lifters in my 10:1 long-rod 461. Don't mind a bit of lope but not too gnarly. Enough vacuum for the power brakes?

[Gach]

What cam you have in it now ? I believe Ram air 3 cam is actually 068 cam. Not sure. Ram Air IV would actually better. Specially seeing its a 461.

[Gach]

Just judging from my buddy Ram Air 1V….400 Idels real nice and nice Lope will make ton of torque in 461.

[DogMeister]

Originally Posted by Gach

What cam you have in it now ? I believe Ram air 3 cam is actually 068 cam. Not sure. Ram Air IV would actually better. Specially seeing its a 461.

Current cam is a Melling SPC-5. which is like the 066 cam. Very mild, 198/208 at 0.050. I think the RA IV cam will be less streetable than the III.

[mgarblik]

The 068 Pontiac cam, sometimes called the Ram Air III cam is a very mild cam. The smoothest, "performance" cam for a Pontiac. Plenty of vacuum, can run with AC, any converter and rear end ratio. Good torque and power to 5000 RPM's. For folks who want a slight upgrade from the ultra smooth 067 run of the mill Pontiac cam, a nice choice. Works in almost any application. Worth 10-15 HP over a bone stock cam.

[unruhjonny]

I hope to be some help by clearing some of the minute details up:

Originally Posted by DogMeister

How's the idle on the Ram Air III cam? Thinking about upgrading the dinky cam and lifters in my 10:1 long-rod 461. Don't mind a bit of lope but not too gnarly. Enough vacuum for the power brakes?

What might be confusing is that there were no "Ram Air III" camshafts persay;
What there was, were two cams that had been used in performance applications for several years prior;
The "HO" cam was the 068 - this one is by a huge margin the most comon performance cam that Pontiac used;
It was in all 1970 RAIII engines, as well as 71-72 455HO - and the same lobe profile and timing as the one used in 73-74 SD455 engines.
The 068 was also used in the earlier "HO" motors, as well as the 1967-1968 RAI and all 1969 RAIII engines when backed by an automatic.

Your 066 is what I might describe as one of Pontiac's "bread & butter" camshaft used between 1965 & 1976 on a ton of engines - this grind was great for torque, but not so much for higher rpm use.

The next step up is the 067;
I would describe this as Pontiac's entry level performance cam - it was commonly used on the performance engines - but never a Ram Air or HO engine.
After 1970, and through to 1976, the highest horsepower (D-port) engines all used this grind.
On paper, this grind is really close to a 066, and I suspect that is why this cam is virtually unobtainable right now - I found one member with an NOS 067 cam, but otherwise, cannot find it.
There is an older Nunzie(?) version of this cam that was at one time called a 067HL - it is essentially the same, but with higher lift.

Next up is the 068 - nuff said.

The next is a 744;
This was for a time the 'Ram Air' cam;
It came on 1966-1969 'Ram Air' (Ram Air I & Ram Air III) engines when backed by a manual transmission;
Some would say (myself included) that this is the best sounding of all Pontiac grinds.
Others would say that this cam is crap because the lobes almost flatten out...

Next up is the 041 - it was introduced with the RAII, and used on it and the RAIV exclusively;
A solid lifter version of this grind preceeded the RAII by seven years.

Originally Posted by mgarblik

The 068 Pontiac cam, sometimes called the Ram Air III cam is a very mild cam. The smoothest, "performance" cam for a Pontiac. Plenty of vacuum, can run with AC, any converter and rear end ratio. Good torque and power to 5000 RPM's. For folks who want a slight upgrade from the ultra smooth 067 run of the mill Pontiac cam, a nice choice. Works in almost any application. Worth 10-15 HP over a bone stock cam.

I wold wholly agree with this post, but just want to point out (as previously mentioned) that the 067 which would be one step up from your current cam is virtually unobtainable.

[JLBIII]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

I hope to be some help by clearing some of the minute details up:

Your 066 is what I might describe as one of Pontiac's "bread & butter" camshaft used between 1965 & 1976 on a ton of engines - this grind was great for torque, but not so much for higher rpm use.

The next step up is the 067;
I would describe this as Pontiac's entry level performance cam - it was commonly used on the performance engines - but never a Ram Air or HO engine.

On the 067 cam, I have a 68 Firebird with a 400HO, TH400 and ac. It is my understanding that the 067 was used in the 400HO with TH400 trans and the 068 was used in a 400HO with a manual trans.

[Formulajones]

In a 455 it is plenty street able and if installed with Rhoades lifters (I'd recommend) it would idle nearly smooth. In fact you wouldn't even need a stall converter. Just to give an idea how the 455 soaks up that cam, the engine would be all done making power by 5300-5500 tops so it's not a big cam at all for a 455.

Honestly if it's running good now with no issues I wouldn't even bother spending all the time and money involved in a cam swap just to put an 068 in place of the 066. Just not worth it to me.

[mgarblik]

A well worn 066 cam swap to an 068 cam: You would feel a slight surge in power improvement between 3000-5000 RPM. Some people will notice, some would not. As I mentioned, 10-15 HP. Probably get a little more from optimizing your distributor and carburetor tuning.

[Formulajones]

Yep, in a 455, (a 461 in this case with 10:1 compression) the 068 isn't a big power maker and certainly won't have any lopy idle at all. It would be all done by 4800-5000 rpm.

I've just never been impressed with the 455's I've run against at the Pontiac drags over the decades that follow the small cam mentality. Most all of them can't even outrun my stock RAIII 400, including the HO's and SD's that were in the stock class years ago.

If you're dead set on not using something in the RAIV size catagory, you'd be better served and doing that 455 a favor to at least look at a Crower 242 with a bit more duration and lift than the 068.

[jhein]

I think it's pretty mild. This is my previous Melling RAIII cam. To me it sounds more rowdy in the video than it did in person.

https://youtu.be/u1TXdkyh29k

Edit: Oh. Sorry. I see it's for a 461. That's a tiny cam for that CID. That video is in a 400.

Edit again: It's the Melling 068 in the above video, not the 744

[John Milner]

If you are talking about the 744 cam, it idles with a very slight loap in a 10:1 433 that I have. I would imagine that it would idle pretty smooth in a 461. It runs well and it produces plenty of vacuum to run power brakes. Low end power is good but I also run a 4 speed and 3:90 gears. An 041 cam is a nice cam in a 10:1 455/461. It would produce plenty of vacuum, idle with a slight loap and make great power.

[jhein]

This is the cam in my signature in a 467. I think it's a little spunky but not bad at all. it has 14" vacuum at idle. Power brakes are solid.

https://youtu.be/ldukr0rEMz4

[Formulajones]

Speaking of the 068, in my 400 it's baby smooth, no lope. It's a relatively small cam all things considered. I wouldn't even entertain the thought of using it in a 455. I'd go straight for something with no less than 230 @ .050 in an engine that large, like the RAIV cam these guys have suggested.
Even that cam in a 455 set up properly will idle pretty docile with only a slight hint at idle and produce plenty of vacuum as long as you have a little bit of compression.

[JB Eng Wis]

Question Dog Meister.... are you just doing a camshaft up grade?...or will valve springs be involved in a can change also?

[Stan Weiss]

For reference. This is from Cam DR testing that I got from Ken Crocie / H-O Enterp

The Elgin cam as like a 744 and the Crane cam is like a RAIV / 041 cam

; HC-56 Elgin 909
; HC-549 04-12-90 Test # 49
; Rocker Ratio - 1.5:1 Intake - 1.5:1 Exhaust
; Checking Height = 0.004
;
; C1_File_-_Header_Information From Papers
; PVN,ICL,ECL_=_xxx,115.4,115.4
; Overlap_=_76.6
; Intake_Open_=_26.9____Close_=_94.9____Duration_=_3 01.8
; Intake_Cam_Lift_=_.27236____Valve_Lift_=_.40854___ _Area_=_22.79
; Exhaust_Open_=_83.2____Close_=_49.7____Duration_=_ 312.8
; Exhaust_Cam_Lift_=_.27193____Valve_Lift_=_.40789__ __Area_=_24.32


; Crane 969681 Blue Print 041
; HC0235 01-17-90 Test # 35
; Rocker Ratio - 1.5:1 Intake - 1.5:1 Exhaust
; Checking Height = 0.004
;
; C1_File_-_Header_Information From Papers
; PVN,ICL,ECL_=_xxx,113.8,113.8
; Overlap_=_86.1
; Intake_Open_=_31.9____Close_=_98.9____Duration_=_3 10.7
; Intake_Cam_Lift_=_.31374____Valve_Lift_=_.47061___ _Area_=_25.85
; Exhaust_Open_=_83.6____Close_=_54.2____Duration_=_ 317.9
; Exhaust_Cam_Lift_=_.31319____Valve_Lift_=_.46978__ __Area_=_26.58
;
; From a Different Piece of Paper
; 0.050_Overlap_=_8.4
; Intake_0.050_Open_=_1.5____Close_=_50.2____Duratio n_=_231.6
; Exhaust_0.050_Open_=_52.8____Close_=_6.9____Durati on_=_239.7

Stan

[i82much]

seems like we should know more ... weight, axle ratio, tire diameter, transmission, intake, carb, headers, heads, etc.?

if you have a stick with 4.10 gears and 26 inch tires, put a 290b6 in that sumbitch, get a vacuum reserve canister, and let it scream!!!! but you probably don't ...

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by i82much

seems like we should know more ... weight, axle ratio, tire diameter, transmission, intake, carb, headers, heads, etc.?

if you have a stick with 4.10 gears and 26 inch tires, put a 290b6 in that sumbitch, get a vacuum reserve canister, and let it scream!!!! but you probably don't ...

This is the street section. So I would guess that people drive these cars. The above at 65 MPH would be turning 3450 RPM. Does sound like a fun 2 or 3 hour drive down the interstate to me.

Stan

[i82much]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

This is the street section. So I would guess that people drive these cars. The above at 65 MPH would be turning 3450 RPM. Does sound like a fun 2 or 3 hour drive down the interstate to me.

Stan

i did it with 3.90's and a 28 inch tire for a number of years ... if you want to know what it was like to have a real hot rod in the 70's, it's basically cruising at over 3000 rpm and desperately watching your temperature gauge every time you sit in traffic 🤣

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by i82much

i did it with 3.90's and a 28 inch tire for a number of years ... if you want to know what it was like to have a real hot rod in the 70's, it's basically cruising at over 3000 rpm and desperately watching your temperature gauge every time you sit in traffic 🤣

My brothers '65 GTO came from Pontiac with a 4 speed and 3.90:1 rear.

In the late '60s and early '70s my '57 Chevy had 4.56:1

I enjoyed it then, not so much now. lol

Stan