[Cliff R]

"The schematic that I posted on line depicts the Blocks water Jackets being closed off, someone online, in the past mentioned a Pontiac mod. and posted on PY, are you familiar with coolant mod?"

I've seen the mods but have never done them here. As part of my learning curve (over 25 years part time and 20 more years full time) doing these things I figured out how to build one of these engines with tight squish, optimum compression for pump gas, and full control of timing/fuel curves so they NEVER even think about running hot, overheating, pinging on pump gas, etc. So no need to look for modifications to help a problem that doesn't exist.

The KEY to success with a running hot engine starts on the engine stand and making good choices for it. Once you figure out how to get it to turn heat production into making power vs dumping it into the engine coolant, EVERYTHING in that area gets a LOT better. Don't get me wrong here, early on I built a few of these engines that warmed up very quickly, and started "creeping" up past 180 degrees, then 190, and even past 200-210 at traffic lights. Then they would creep up steady cruising to and sometimes well past 200 degrees. Used to drive me nuts until I got better at the basics of engine building and making better choices for them.

Up until I figured all that out I did what I see countless others do on the Forums......look for ways to get rid of the heat like massive radiators, multiple fans, high flow water pumps, etc. When you do better with the basics you can cool one of these engines effectively with a stock water pump, stock radiator and factory clutch fan.

Getting the "basics" right resulted in the last three engines that powered my car not wanting to heat up at all and at times they would run so cool it was almost a PITA to get them up to temp. For example, drag racing in late Fall when the temps were getting below about 50 degrees I'd have to leave my engine running in staging lanes or it would "lay down" on the launch and not pull nearly as hard on the run. Fully warmed up and heat soaked it was flawless so I kept it that way on race days.

I'd also add that doing the SAME thing every time at the track has you going rounds vs getting put on the trailer and headed home, so staging the car right at 180 degrees was one of the variables I took out of the equation, and it proved to work quite well for me over the years........

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

I figure an inspection of the mains and rod bearings using plaster gauge will determine the ware on this engine and a check of the wrist pins and rods themselves would be beneficial, as long as I am going this far. Changing the rear main seal at this time is correct.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Remember, I have a street driven car in south Florida using AC that raises the temp some 30 degrees. Plus, I am stuck with what I purchased as is. I am not starting from scratch here, it took me most of the past 10 years learning Mechanics 101, from tip to stern. On the good side, I have jumped over every hurdle so far. This Piston thing is coming out of left field. I know it is "not the problem", but what other way is there to find out what that noise was. I hate to do all this work only to find out I was correct, that it was simply reverb.

Once I pulled the AC condenser out from in front of the radiator on this vehicle, while I waited for the compressor and condenser to come in. This vehicle ran so cool that it was like I was driving with a piece of plywood out in front of me being taken away.

Compare apples to apples here!

At this time, I am running at 190 degrees without AC and 220 degrees with AC in traffic and 200 degrees with AC on the highway.

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

I figure an inspection of the mains and rod bearings using plaster gauge will determine the ware on this engine and a check of the wrist pins and rods themselves would be beneficial, as long as I am going this far. Changing the rear main seal at this time is correct.

That makes sense...

[track73]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Please send me a video clip of your motor with the road's lifters, so I can determine whether or not I can stand the different noise they incur!

I'm not sure a video clip will give the responce you need. All I can say is that in the car you can't notice. And my mufflers probably drown out the noise any way. With the hood 's open it just sounds like an engine with solid lifters.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

At this time, I am running at 190 degrees without AC and 220 degrees with AC in traffic and 200 degrees with AC on the highway.

There's room for improvement there. Getting that hot under the hood is likely a big part of the vapor lock issues you've been fighting in the past too.

As already mentioned, there is no need for fancy cooling mods on these things if everything else is happy and working together. Cliff is right, it starts on the engine stand, making good choices during the build, with good machine work, proper cam and compression choices etc...

Just for reference if you want to compare to another AC car, my Chevelle with a 600hp 454 has factory AC. And when I would use the AC, even in traffic that engine never crept above 190 on very hot Arizona days. Moving it would run about 185, not much fluctuation. Without AC I can't get the engine over 170. In fact just this past weekend it was 105 degrees here and I was cruising along at 2600 rpm, 70 mph, and 168 degrees.
It's just a stock clutch fan, stock shroud, and a Griffin radiator.

As far as Pontiacs go, dad making 724 HP with a 571 CI Pontiac rarely ever gets over 175 degrees on days I just described above. In fact we often cruise together and then compare engine temps and we were together this weekend. His engine was only running 2 degrees warmer than mine.
Just a stock clutch fan, stock shroud, and a Cold Case radiator. No coolant mods, I don't even bother checking water pump spacing that is often preached here, and don't care how far the fan sticks in the shroud either.
These are just very efficient engines that are well tuned and happy with well chosen camshafts and compression ratios for the pump fuel we use.

If you're stuck with what ya got and it's working well enough for you then I guess there is not much here we can suggest. Continue with your freshen up as you see fit and get back to enjoying the car

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by track73

I'm not sure a video clip will give the responce you need. All I can say is that in the car you can't notice. And my mufflers probably drown out the noise any way. With the hood 's open it just sounds like an engine with solid lifters.

Agree, people need to get over this noise thing they have. More than a few here have expressed concern running Rhoads for fear of the ticking noises they make. I never quite understood that coming from old school hard core car guys (how I grew up) Lifters ticking just meant you had a hot engine under the hood (and I don't mean temperature)

Quite frankly, with the hood shut and driving you really can't even hear the loudest of the solid lifter camshafts, and todays profiles with their tight lash lobes are so quiet it's like it's not even there.

The new Rhoads lifters are much the same, they can be lashed fairly snug to a point they don't really make noise you can hear when using the car and going about your business.

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I never quite understood that coming from old school hard core car guys (how I grew up) Lifters ticking just meant you had a hot engine under the hood (and I don't mean temperature)

Add me to the list of misunderstood old school car guys. Ticking to me always meant that something was misadjusted or broken. I appreciate what Rhoads lifters do. No thanks for me. I'll make adjustments, or sacrifices, elsewhere to have a quiet engine. My $.02

[78w72]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Good to know on one end bad on the other, might mean I have another problem.

I will ask this: Since after taping and sealing the connection from the Exhaust tips to the 4" metal dryer hose, we eventually heard the Engine make a different sound and when we added an additional rubber to plastic material from a lawn type blower to the end of the metal hose about another 6', the diameter was greater, than that of the 4" metal hose and that was also taped together using metal duct tape as well. Combined 16' approx. length made a change in motor sound, I quickly stopped this procedure, I originally thought that I may have disturbed the Exhaust Valve seals? Note: I had replaced the Valve seals within 10 k miles that I put on this second-hand project. It is unknown what the full mileage is on this engine?

So, could you explain to me "what the difference in motor sound" occurred while I had the dryer hose attachment installed and why I all of a sudden heard a different sound that doesn't belong after test driving this vehicle on the road, without yet discovering the holes in the crossover plugs?

Unfortunately I can not explain the difference in sound after using 4"+ hose, but Im 99% sure it is not what caused this noise you describe... shops use that same size tubing in the winters and dyno rooms have exhaust tube running the same type of length to exit the building, they run very high RPMs on high power engines and never had reverberation problems from it. 4" tube did not blow out your block offs or disturb the exhaust seals.

Also just a question to others regarding the swapping pistons to the other bank thing... wont that cause a problem with rings sealing if they are in different positions? Or do the rings stay in the same cylinders but get swapped on the pistons. Just trying to clarify & understand this for myself & anyone that may do it... the way its worded some may just swap the rings too & that cant be a good thing.

And Ive mentioned this before on other threads about the cooling mods on this car... how do all the other hot rods in florida or texas or arizona drive around without all these mods, most with a lot more power? These cars when new didnt have anything beyond the factory stuff and they lasted for 80k+ miles, then got rebuilt & went another 80k+. Something else if off on the engine or tune if it runs that hot & requires all those mods, some ive never heard of, side kick radiators, mouse pad material wrapped in foil tape etc etc.

Hope you can figure out the issues, listening to others on here that have much higher power engines running nice & cool would be the best approach.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by 78w72

Unfortunately I cannot explain the difference in sound after using 4"+ hose, but I'm 99% sure it is not what caused this noise you describe... shops use that same size tubing in the winters and dyno rooms have exhaust tube running the same type of length to exit the building, they run very high RPMs on high power engines and never had reverberation problems from it. 4" tube did not blow out your block offs or disturb the exhaust seals.

Also, just a question to others regarding the swapping of pistons for the other bank thing... won't that cause a problem with rings sealing if they are in different positions? Or do the rings stay in the same cylinders but get swapped on the pistons? Just trying to clarify & understand this for myself & anyone that may do it... the way it's worded some may just swap the rings too & that can't be a good thing.

And I've mentioned this before on other threads about the cooling mods on this car... how do all the other hot rods in Florida or Texas or Arizona drive around without all these mods, most with a lot more power? These cars when new didn't have anything beyond the factory stuff and they lasted for 80k+ miles, then got rebuilt & went another 80k+. Something else if off on the engine or tune if it runs that hot & requires all those mods, some I've never heard of a side kick- radiators, mouse pad material wrapped in foil tape etc etc.

Hope you can figure out the issues, listening to others on here that have much higher power engines running nice & cool would be the best approach.

I learned about the Side-kick from forums, just like the Pontiac mod to the water pump and now the drill and plug trick. How much more can I do but try and experiment as others have done before me? This is a learning process and it has been 2 steps forward and 3 steps back. I just rebuilt a TH 400 Trans, successfully I might add, I was told by a Transmission specialist that auto mechanics bring their trans. in to me. Give me some positive credit for a Novis I am, let me grow in knowledge.

I am running at 190 degrees without the AC on. When I turn on the AC on the highway it is 200 degrees. Around town in traffic with the AC running, I am at 210-220 degrees. I don't vapor lock on rec-89-90 anymore. Is that a safe temp? I use the extra fans only with the AC. The reason I am looking into the Pontiac cooling mod. is that it is the best mod. according to people who have actually done it. I could stay away from this mod. but I am always looking for improvement. Since I have the heads off it is the perfect opportunity to try something new. What if it lowers the engine temp. ,like they say. It seems to make sense over all the jury rigging I have been doing over the past 10 years, I am only sorry I did not learn about it 10 years ago, so I could have done it first, savvy.

You said: Also, just a question to others regarding the swapping of pistons for the other bank thing... won't that cause a problem with rings sealing if they are in different positions? Or do the rings stay in the same cylinders but get swapped on the pistons?

Mikes reply: Good question, I second that?

I have been rationalizing over this noise and that is the best I can come up with because I noticed the difference right away. Then I Test and tune and find the exhaust crossover has holes in them, that is not helping. I think the fact that I have no cross after the collectors has everything to do with this vibration or reverb? Why do people put the crossover "X" after the collectors anyway, if it were not necessary? I only experienced this weird noise twice, once with the exhaust extension and now testing and tuning with crossover holes.

I wish I could prove it. I can live with the pistons being backwards, since the racers did it for a reason. My only choice is to either take my chance that I diagnosed the noise already and put the motor back together with the rebuilt Heads. Secondary, keep taking it apart. I have not found anything to warrant more disassembly other than the Pistons installed with the notch toward the rear and to find out that it was done on purpose, tells me I am on the right track.

My deduction is reverb, pulses bouncing under the Intake Manifold then to the defuser and back, with no cross "X" to equalize the echoing nor any mufflers in-between to do their job. I am not an expert on Exhaust systems, but I trust my own intuition, it has gotten me this far.

[400 Lemans]

I don't see any water passage mods in your block pics. Looks like any other Pontiac, stock block setup.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

Add me to the list of misunderstood old school car guys. Ticking to me always meant that something was misadjusted or broken. I appreciate what Rhoads lifters do. No thanks for me. I'll make adjustments, or sacrifices, elsewhere to have a quiet engine. My $.02

Amen to that, I still would like to hear the sound for experience, who knows maybe I can handle the noise, but I doubt it!

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by 400 Lemans

I don't see any water passage mods in your block pics. Looks like any other Pontiac, stock block setup.

I just got through looking at STEVE BARCAK mod and 1A2 Block cooling holes and 421 style cooling holes, I see that the 421 mod holes are not in the Head nor the Block. There are additional 3 holes that I would have to plug in the Block per side, I see that the factory did close 4 holes per side on the Block on mine. Plus, I need to drill the holes in the Block and heads between the two exhaust valves.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Agree, people need to get over this noise thing they have. More than a few here have expressed concern running Rhoads for fear of the ticking noises they make. I never quite understood that coming from old school hard core car guys (how I grew up) Lifters ticking just meant you had a hot engine under the hood (and I don't mean temperature)

Quite frankly, with the hood shut and driving you really can't even hear the loudest of the solid lifter camshafts, and todays profiles with their tight lash lobes are so quiet it's like it's not even there.

The new Rhoads lifters are much the same, they can be lashed fairly snug to a point they don't really make noise you can hear when using the car and going about your business.

Thank you for that input, I will keep that in mind, it sounds more bearable now. What is your input on possible reverb noise that I experienced twice?

[78w72]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

I learned about the Side-kick from forums, just like the Pontiac mod to the water pump and now the drill and plug trick. How much more can I do but try and experiment as others have done before me? This is a learning process and it has been 2 steps forward and 3 steps back. I just rebuilt a TH 400 Trans, successfully I might add, I was told by a Transmission specialist that auto mechanics bring their trans. in to me. Give me some positive credit for a Novis I am, let me grow in knowledge.

I am running at 190 degrees without the AC on. When I turn on the AC on the highway it is 200 degrees. Around town in traffic with the AC running, I am at 210-220 degrees. I don't vapor lock on rec-89-90 anymore. Is that a safe temp? I use the extra fans only with the AC. The reason I am looking into the Pontiac cooling mod. is that it is the best mod. according to people who have actually done it. I could stay away from this mod. but I am always looking for improvement. Since I have the heads off it is the perfect opportunity to try something new. What if it lowers the engine temp. ,like they say. It seems to make sense over all the jury rigging I have been doing over the past 10 years, I am only sorry I did not learn about it 10 years ago, so I could have done it first, savvy.

You said: Also, just a question to others regarding the swapping of pistons for the other bank thing... won't that cause a problem with rings sealing if they are in different positions? Or do the rings stay in the same cylinders but get swapped on the pistons?

Mikes reply: Good question, I second that?

I have been rationalizing over this noise and that is the best I can come up with because I noticed the difference right away. Then I Test and tune and find the exhaust crossover has holes in them, that is not helping. I think the fact that I have no cross after the collectors has everything to do with this vibration or reverb? Why do people put the crossover "X" after the collectors anyway, if it were not necessary? I only experienced this weird noise twice, once with the exhaust extension and now testing and tuning with crossover holes.

I wish I could prove it. I can live with the pistons being backwards, since the racers did it for a reason. My only choice is to either take my chance that I diagnosed the noise already and put the motor back together with the rebuilt Heads. Secondary, keep taking it apart. I have not found anything to warrant more disassembly other than the Pistons installed with the notch toward the rear and to find out that it was done on purpose, tells me I am on the right track.

My deduction is reverb, pulses bouncing under the Intake Manifold then to the defuser and back, with no cross "X" to equalize the echoing nor any mufflers in-between to do their job. I am not an expert on Exhaust systems, but I trust my own intuition, it has gotten me this far.

Thats awesome you rebuilt the trans, was just mentioning all the mods on the car to get it to run without overheating, some seemed rather involved but if thats what is needed thats your call. Those are safe temps, 220 is approaching overheating but some idiot light cars didnt come on until hotter than that.

An X or H crossover pipe is to help scavenging of exhaust gasses, it doesnt really reduce flow restriction. Also, as exhaust gases cool they dont need as much space, at the rear of the car going to more than double the size with the dryer duct, you did not harm anything related to the exhaust. The holes in the heads exhaust crossover block off could have and probably were there before you think.

I have no suggestion on the noise you heard, could be many things, almost impossible to diagnose things like that over the internet, a video when running would be the only real way to make a long distance guess. When the exhaust crossover is open as designed with full reverb potential, it doesnt cause any noises in the engine or exhaust Im aware of, I have had many pontiac cars with that open. Just a suggestion the noise may be unrelated to your deduction.

[Cliff R]

Just a note on using Rhoads lifters and noise.

We used to adjust them down from zero lash which leaves a LOT of plunger travel. When the engine gets fully warmed up and heat soaked and the oil thins out you'll get some "clackers" in the bunch, but even then it's not hurting anything.

I ran them for quite a few years in my first 455, first with iron heads then with KRE heads. I started out with standard lifters and swapped in the Rhoads on the dyno to see if they made any difference. We even loaded the engine down pretty low wi the brake and saw nothing at all in power production.

We did see a solid 2" improvement in vacuum at idle speed, and noticably improved throttle response right off idle. When I returned the engine to the car I saw LESS RPM drop placing the trans in gear, and improved throttle response and power in the "normal" driving range. The engine was clearing working better right off idle and below about 2500rpm's, past that as the dyno told us same as standard lifters. As for noise it was noticeable but nothing you'd concern yourself with and they shut right up by 2000rpm's or so.

When I finally removed that cam/lifters and went a HR cam the cam showed no wear nor did the lifters and they ended up in a 400 RAIV build a few years later.

Lessons learned years later is to tight lash them to control the noise and how much bleed-off is available. So the builder/tuner cam simply bottom out the plungers with a .020", or .030" if you want more bleed-down available and they will be more consistent and you control how much clattering is going to happen when the oil thins out. They still work as advertised and they even make a version where they recommend setting them in that manner, the V-Max. I took V-Max lifters apart and they are identical to standard Rhoads lifters aside from having a stainless steel shim in them to reduce plunger travel slightly.

For those worried about noise I'd for sure set them at .020". You can still enjoy the improvements in vacuum production with a "hefty" cam and some improved low speed power, but they will not be any louder than a flat solid cam lashed about the same......FWIW.....


https://www.rhoadslifters.com/Pages/Installation.html

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

I just got through looking at STEVE BARCAK mod and 1A2 Block cooling holes and 421 style cooling holes, I see that the 421 mod holes are not in the Head nor the Block. There are additional 3 holes that I would have to plug in the Block per side, I see that the factory did close 4 holes per side on the Block on mine. Plus, I need to drill the holes in the Block and heads between the two exhaust valves.

This is a picture I drew of the Pontiac cooling Mod. that I found on this forum, I have drawn it in the pink marker, I am seriously thinking of incorporating this modification as I have the Heads remanufactured. My roommate and I are Leary about doing any other work than sealing off the exhaust crossovers at this time and we need to degree wheel the cam. Since I don't have the crossover exhaust "X" and the vehicle always ran without it tells me that I don't have to add one if I just go back the way it was.

It is noted that the 80 degrees of overlap with these "041" cams is a lot of OL. However, I can always buy a set of Roads Lifters and 1.6:1 Rockers later, again this car ran with the Johnson lifters in the past. we think that the 80 degrees OL having the Intake and Exhaust Valves open for that duration coupled with holes in the exhaust crossovers in the Head, plus, lack of proper mufflers and having the 2-1/2" Exhaust Pipes running some 10' to the Diffuser could cause this noise, that I never had, except on several recent test and tunes.

We are willing to take our chances, as we always have, to do what we think will work, the worst-case scenario is that we have to go back into this motor. At this time, I feel that the Pistons being reversed did not cause this issue, so why would I touch them at this time? This motor is strong at the bottom and if it is not broken don't fix it. Someone knew what they were doing when they modified this motor. Although the factory does things for a reason, so do the racers. Since no one has explained to me why the crossovers "X" is installed, after the collectors makes it hard for me to make my decision. " Why do people use an "X" type crossover abaft of the collectors"? Note: this vehicle has been running less that 10 k miles since I got it running, with the Exhaust system going from the Headers to the collectors and Streight out to the diffuser, with no problem ever. I have very few miles on this "041" Cam and I had installed it with the advanced timing just prior to the Transmission accident, thus this Cam could have something to do with the current noise issue?
Because I had the vehicle off the road for 2 years building the Trans. So, People who are telling me that I must use the Roads Lifters, I ask is this current noise the product of 80 degrees overlap, because if that is what you mean by saying, get Roads Lifters than I have to agree with you people. Please bear with me as I learn something, this is out of my league. Believe me, for those of you who are steering me toward the piston change that won't solve the current issue, duly noted. After I squeeze the life out of the bottom end of the motor, then I will rebuild this motor, as stock using new Rings and all new Bearings. This engine already has had all the other replaceable parts installed, then sell it to someone that needs a Pontiac YK code 428 HO with Tri-powers and I will buy a modern Engine like one of those 1AII with Aluminum Heads and all the goodies.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

About the Roads Lifters, thank you Cliff it sounds like a winner!

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

There's room for improvement there. Getting that hot under the hood is likely a big part of the vapor lock issues you've been fighting in the past too.

As already mentioned, there is no need for fancy cooling mods on these things if everything else is happy and working together. Cliff is right, it starts on the engine stand, making good choices during the build, with good machine work, proper cam and compression choices etc...

Just for reference if you want to compare to another AC car, my Chevelle with a 600hp 454 has factory AC. And when I would use the AC, even in traffic that engine never crept above 190 on very hot Arizona days. Moving it would run about 185, not much fluctuation. Without AC I can't get the engine over 170. In fact just this past weekend it was 105 degrees here and I was cruising along at 2600 rpm, 70 mph, and 168 degrees.
It's just a stock clutch fan, stock shroud, and a Griffin radiator.

As far as Pontiacs go, dad making 724 HP with a 571 CI Pontiac rarely ever gets over 175 degrees on days I just described above. In fact we often cruise together and then compare engine temps and we were together this weekend. His engine was only running 2 degrees warmer than mine.
Just a stock clutch fan, stock shroud, and a Cold Case radiator. No coolant mods, I don't even bother checking water pump spacing that is often preached here, and don't care how far the fan sticks in the shroud either.
These are just very efficient engines that are well tuned and happy with well-chosen camshafts and compression ratios for the pump fuel we use.

If you're stuck with what ya got and it's working well enough for you then I guess there is not much here we can suggest. Continue with your freshen up as you see fit and get back to enjoying the car

I am realizing that you and others have better gauges than me, I have the 1979 rally ones, it is hard to read them due to the lack of calibration numbers, therefore, I am only getting close to the actual temp. numbers at any time. When I get out of the car and put the Lazor temp. reader from Harbor freight, the numbers all came down and measured at the base of the thermostat and upper radiator core and then the lower radiator near the water returns to the block, temp. check out very well. I have an additional radiator cap temp. gauge and reads good, so I really don't need any improvement. The fact that I have the Heads removed at this time is why I am going to use the Pontiac cooling mod., ...CAN'T HURT!

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Just a note on using Rhoads lifters and noise.

We used to adjust them down from zero lash which leaves a LOT of plunger travel. When the engine gets fully warmed up and heat soaked and the oil thins out, you'll get some "clackers" in the bunch, but even then, it's not hurting anything.

I ran them for quite a few years in my first 455, first with iron heads then with KRE heads. I started out with standard lifters and swapped in the Rhoads on the dyno to see if they made any difference. We even loaded the engine down pretty low with the brake and saw nothing at all in power production.

We did see a solid 2" improvement in vacuum at idle speed, and noticeably improved throttle response right off idle. When I returned the engine to the car, I saw LESS RPM drop placing the trans in gear, and improved throttle response and power in the "normal" driving range. The engine was clearing working better right off idle and below about 2500rpm's, past that as the dyno told us same as standard lifters. As for noise it was noticeable but nothing, you'd concern yourself with and they shut right up by 2000rpm's or so.

When I finally removed that cam/lifters and went to an HR cam the cam showed no wear nor did the lifters and they ended up in a 400 RAIV build a few years later.

Lessons learned years later is to tight lash them to control the noise and how much bleed-off is available. So, the builder/tuner cam simply bottom out the plungers with a .020", or .030" if you want more bleed-down available and they will be more consistent and you control how much clattering is going to happen when the oil thins out. They still work as advertised and they even make a version where they recommend setting them in that manner, the V-Max. I took V-Max lifters apart and they are identical to standard Rhoads lifters aside from having a stainless-steel shim in them to reduce plunger travel slightly.

For those worried about noise, I'd for sure set them at .020". You can still enjoy the improvements in vacuum production with a "hefty" cam and some improved low speed power, but they will not be any louder than a flat solid cam lashed about the same......FWIW.....


https://www.rhoadslifters.com/Pages/Installation.html

Mike said:
I just got done reading about the Rhoads lifter info. , Do you think that they will solve this Reverb problem or noise that I experienced?

Read this please:

This is a picture I drew of the Pontiac cooling Mod. that I found on this forum, I have drawn it in the pink marker, I am seriously thinking of incorporating this modification as I have the Heads remanufactured. My roommate and I are Leary about doing any other work than sealing off the exhaust crossovers at this time and we need to degree wheel the cam. Since I don't have the crossover exhaust "X" and the vehicle always ran without it tells me that I don't have to add one if I just go back the way it was.

It is noted that the 80 degrees of overlap with these "041" cams is a lot of OL. However, I can always buy a set of Roads Lifters and 1.6:1 Rockers later, again this car ran with the Johnson lifters in the past. We think that the 80 degrees OL, having the Intake and Exhaust Valves open for that duration, coupled with holes in the exhaust crossovers in the Head, plus, lack of proper mufflers and having the 2-1/2" Exhaust Pipes running some 10' to the Diffuser, plus the 3 degrees advanced at the distributor that we added, could cause this noise, that I never had, except on several recent test and tunes.

We are willing to take our chances, as we always have, to do what we think will work, the worst-case scenario is that we have to go back into this motor. At this time, I feel that the Pistons being reversed did not cause this issue, so why would I touch them at this time? This motor is strong at the bottom and if it is not broken don't fix it. Someone knew what they were doing when they modified this motor. Although the factory does things for a reason, so do the racers. Since no one has explained to me why the crossovers "X" is installed, after the collectors makes it hard for me to make my decision. " Why do people use an "X" type crossover abaft of the collectors"? Note: this vehicle has been running less that 10 k miles since I got it running, with the Exhaust system going from the Headers to the collectors and Streight out to the diffuser, with no problem ever. I have very few miles on this "041" Cam and I had installed it with the advanced timing just prior to the Transmission accident, thus this Cam could have something to do with the current noise issue?
Because I had the vehicle off the road for 2 years building the Trans. So, People who are telling me that I must use the Roads Lifters, I ask is this current noise the product of 80 degrees overlap, because if that is what you mean by saying, get Roads Lifters than I have to agree with you people. Please bear with me as I learn something, this is out of my league. Believe me, for those of you who are steering me toward the piston change that won't solve the current issue, duly noted. After I squeeze the life out of the bottom end of the motor, then I will rebuild this motor, as stock using new Rings and all new Bearings. This engine already has had all the other replaceable parts installed, then sell it to someone that needs a Pontiac YK code 428 HO with Tri-powers and I will buy a modern Engine like one of those 1AII with Aluminum Heads and all the goodies.

Questions is this: If I install the Rhoads Lifters, block off the exhaust plugs at the heads, Rebuild the Heads and put it back together, Will the noise have disappeared as quick as it came?