[Big Bear]

This oil pump was posted on e-bay some time ago.

[mgarblik]

Thanks for those pictures. First I have ever seen. So that's the developmental part number on the gear. Would love to get my hands on the blueprints for all the pieces and modifications needed to the rear of the block. Kinda looks like they started with a wet sump pump from the little 1.8L Opel engine they were installing in Sunbirds and other small cars , Brazilian built 1.8L, later enlarged to 2.0L and turbocharged. Very similar style pump.

[sdbob]

A good friend got his 74 SD TA before me in 1974.Anyway he over the years made contact with someone who had a SD block with that oil pump installed. He told me he traded blocks to get that system. I never witnessed system. He sold the car when his wife became ill. My 2cts.

[johnta1]

I think we had a discussion on the gears and possibly someone had all the parts. Probably in the 455 SD section in the 70-73 Birds forum?

[mgarblik]

I am not interested in adding one to this engine. Just for Pontiac knowledge to see one machined and installed on an SD engine would be cool and interesting.

[Jack Gifford]

How were the SD block's oil passages able to serve either the dry sump pump or a normal wet sump pump?

[MarkS57]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Thanks for those pictures. First I have ever seen. So that's the developmental part number on the gear. Would love to get my hands on the blueprints for all the pieces and modifications needed to the rear of the block. Kinda looks like they started with a wet sump pump from the little 1.8L Opel engine they were installing in Sunbirds and other small cars , Brazilian built 1.8L, later enlarged to 2.0L and turbocharged. Very similar style pump.

FWIW since 1986, the Buick FWD 3.8's / 3800's have that type pump along with the distributor-less waste spark ignition system.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by MarkS57

FWIW since 1986, the Buick FWD 3.8's / 3800's have that type pump along with the distributor-less waste spark ignition system.

Yes, that Magnavox ignition system was like rocket science at the time. I was at the Delco Remy plant in Anderson, IN at the time it was introduced. At Delco, they were frantically trying to get the Delco system in production for the anticipated wide spread use of of coil packs in most of GM's cars. The Oil pump likewise was a huge step forward from the external little gear pump Buick engines had. Those pumps often lost their prime during oil changes and had a hard time maintaining 5 PSI on hot summer days with the AC on idling in traffic. Oil light would often flicker. the Buick GN pump was crank driven and a wet sump. Seeing the entire SD-455 system installed would be very interesting.

[mgarblik]

I had a little time to bolt a torque plate on the block and get some preliminary cylinder bore measurements. I will post up a bore chart in a couple days. It appears this block was torque plate honed in 1980-81 when it was rebuilt. I measured one side with the plate on and then measured the other side without the plate. The SD-455 block is extremely stiff, nothing like ANY Pontiac stock block I have ever measured. The difference between plate on vs plate off was no more than .0005" difference anywhere I measured thrust or pin side. A typical Pontiac block will be .001-.0015 variation, plate on vs off and some that are near .060" over size can be .002-.0025 variation. Very impressed with the casting quality and stiffness. When I get it home I will weigh it empty and compare it to a 72 455 I have laying around here. It will be interesting to see how much heavier the SD block is. I will make a guess that it is 15 lbs heavier than a regular 455. We will see.

[sdbob]

I weighed a std bore SD455 block on a state certified scale, around 198 lbs with all the caps. I remember when I found that other SD block in 1975 I'm using, in the junkyard I tried to lift it into my 63 GP trunk.Geez I couldn't took all but 2 main caps off. Still heavy. At 25 yrs old I was still strong ,could lift a 428 bare block into my trunk.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by sdbob

I weighed a std bore SD455 block on a state certified scale, around 198 lbs with all the caps. I remember when I found that other SD block in 1975 I'm using, in the junkyard I tried to lift it into my 63 GP trunk.Geez I couldn't took all but 2 main caps off. Still heavy. At 25 yrs old I was still strong ,could lift a 428 bare block into my trunk.

I'm glad you weighed that. We have one on the shop now that has the water jackets filled and five billet caps. It seems every bit as heavy as an aftermarket iron block.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I had a little time to bolt a torque plate on the block and get some preliminary cylinder bore measurements. I will post up a bore chart in a couple days. It appears this block was torque plate honed in 1980-81 when it was rebuilt. I measured one side with the plate on and then measured the other side without the plate. The SD-455 block is extremely stiff, nothing like ANY Pontiac stock block I have ever measured. The difference between plate on vs plate off was no more than .0005" difference anywhere I measured thrust or pin side. A typical Pontiac block will be .001-.0015 variation, plate on vs off and some that are near .060" over size can be .002-.0025 variation. Very impressed with the casting quality and stiffness. When I get it home I will weigh it empty and compare it to a 72 455 I have laying around here. It will be interesting to see how much heavier the SD block is. I will make a guess that it is 15 lbs heavier than a regular 455. We will see.

Any chance you could Sonic scan of the cylinders?

Unfortunately the SD blocks I've checked the thickness isn't very impressive. I've only scanned about a half dozen or so and all have been 1974's or SR blocks. I'm curious if the earlier cast blocks may have been different .

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Any chance you could Sonic scan of the cylinders?

Unfortunately the SD blocks I've checked the thickness isn't very impressive. I've only scanned about a half dozen or so and all have been 1974's or SR blocks. I'm curious if the earlier cast blocks may have been different .

This is the interesting stuff I was hoping for in this thread. I will weigh the block in a few days. Not a certified scale, but a electronic shipping scale. I wasn't planning to sonic test the block, but I will at your request. Are there say two cylinders that would do the trick? Or is the entire block necessary? If a couple will do, name the ones you want me to scan.

[MarkS57]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Yes, that Magnavox ignition system was like rocket science at the time. I was at the Delco Remy plant in Anderson, IN at the time it was introduced. At Delco, they were frantically trying to get the Delco system in production for the anticipated wide spread use of of coil packs in most of GM's cars. The Oil pump likewise was a huge step forward from the external little gear pump Buick engines had. Those pumps often lost their prime during oil changes and had a hard time maintaining 5 PSI on hot summer days with the AC on idling in traffic. Oil light would often flicker. the Buick GN pump was crank driven and a wet sump. Seeing the entire SD-455 system installed would be very interesting.

Tell me about the 3.8's oiling, I had an 81 GP with one of those, did exactly that and spun a bearing. The GN / 89 Turbro T/A's still used the original oil pump set up though. The "distributor" was just a cam sensor for the EFI & ignition.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by MarkS57

Tell me about the 3.8's oiling, I had an 81 GP with one of those, did exactly that and spun a bearing. The GN / 89 Turbro T/A's still used the original oil pump set up though. The "distributor" was just a cam sensor for the EFI & ignition.

I looked around and could not easily find a oil circuit diagram for a 3800. But the oil pump was housed in the timing cover with a flat inner and outer gear much like the possible SD-455 gears pictured. The steel gears would over time tear up the aluminum housing when dirty oil was run through them from extremely high mileage or neglect. 3800 engines didn't have too many issues with this. The older Buick engines had an external oil pump, camshaft driven. Hanging outside the engine, it had a long pick-up and the pump was down low. When changing oil, if you drained the oil and let it drain for an hour, there was a good chance it would not re-prime after the oil change. We were told at the dealer to drain them no longer than 5 minutes and re-fill immediately and start the engine. Still had a few that the pump had to be taken apart and packed with Vasoline to help it re-prime. A pretty weak oil pump overall.