[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

^^^ Assumed, possibly incorrectly, that you are using a factory distributor. lol

Also, do NOT waste one minute of your time trying to use ANY aftermarket weights and cam! Make sure your advance mechanism if free and not binding. Make sure your weight pivot bushings are good etc.

The Dist. has a factory number on it and it came with the 428 ci motor that I have. It has been converted to Elec. Ignition prior to my purchasing this project. My current timing is 6 degrees BTDC and I am all in by 3000-3500 now, why change it and how can I use what I bought in parts kit best?

The kit has weights and springs and (some say) to use my Factory Weights, because they can be milled to better, closer and tighter tolerances. I have a document in my archives that depicts that procedure. I have also been told to use my original springs with the ones that came in the kit. Then there is the stop device that I bought, it is Black, off round and has a corrugated edge. I also bought an adjustable Vacuum Canister. The directions are included with all the various parts, thank God. It has been a while since I read those directions though. I have saved lots of information on tuning the Engine, there must be at least 3 or 4 that sound true. Am I really, by the seat of my pants, going to feel or see a difference in performance without having to test and tune on a race track?

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

The Dist. has a factory number on it and it came with the 428 ci motor that I have. It has been converted to Elec. Ignition prior to my purchasing this project. My current timing is 6 degrees BTDC and I am all in by 3000-3500 now, why change it and how can I use what I bought in parts kit best?

The kit has weights and springs and (some say) to use my Factory Weights, because they can be milled to better, closer and tighter tolerances. I have a document in my archives that depicts that procedure. I have also been told to use my original springs with the ones that came in the kit. Then there is the stop device that I bought, it is Black, off round and has a corrugated edge. I also bought an adjustable Vacuum Canister. The directions are included with all the various parts, thank God. It has been a while since I read those directions though. I have saved lots of information on tuning the Engine, there must be at least 3 or 4 that sound true. Am I really, by the seat of my pants, going to feel or see a difference in performance without having to test and tune on a race track?

You absolutely will feel a difference when you get the timing right. As tom S said, set your initial to 12 and check your total timing. Make sure to disconnect the vacuum advance (as already stated). Then you will need a dial back timing light or a marked balancer to check your total advance. If you have a factory balancer, you can mark 34 degrees, for example, and use that as a total timing reference mark. I had mine marked at 36. Or get a timing tape for your diameter balancer. Easy enough to figure, or measure, the circumference and divide by 360.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

You absolutely will feel a difference when you get the timing right. As tom S said, set your initial to 12 and check your total timing. Make sure to disconnect the vacuum advance (as already stated). Then you will need a dial back timing light or a marked balancer to check your total advance. If you have a factory balancer, you can mark 34 degrees, for example, and use that as a total timing reference mark. I had mine marked at 36. Or get a timing tape for your diameter balancer. Easy enough to figure, or measure, the circumference and divide by 360.

Since, I have not rebuilt my dist. with the various parts that I own, in order to change my current Ignition Timing from 6 degrees BTDC to any number higher, more on the Initial and less on the All-in. Example: I was at 10 degrees BTDC after, I pulled the Cam Timing back 4 degrees by going back from the fourth notch to zero on the Crank adjustable gear, that was causing noise, due to over advancement to occur. We went back to 6 degrees BTDC and it runs cooler and well. So, going to 12 degrees BTDC is impossible for us, unless we treat the dist. to a rebuild, correct?

We still have to test on the Highway speeds to make sure that the kickdown is working properly. Other than that, the Trans. is working well.

The reason for us checking the Temp. at various coolers and lines is purely our curiosity in learning how my Engine is cooled, for this novias.

I have approx. , without counting 500 pages of handwritten Notes from both studying automotive 101 and shopping for parts.
I read Manuals that I purchased and found online, plus I read Articles that help too. I also tried new Pontiac mods that I obtained over the PY forum. I will say it again, my motor is cleaner than yours on the inside for sure and that is a good thing. I watch videos online and I converse live on forums. I am learning and I also experiment, "why is it that I am still in this hobby"? I like to believe that I am making progress. With all the different answers that I get from people over the internet, one must extrapolate what is best for me, for no two Engines are the same.

P.S. I have marked the Harmonic Balancer with the tape and we use a Timing light, RPM meter and Vacuum gauge as we time now as well as plugging off the Vacuum hose.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

I have saved lots of information on tuning the Engine, there must be at least 3 or 4 that sound true. Am I really, by the seat of my pants, going to feel or see a difference in performance without having to test and tune on a race track?

Absolutely. To explain further without going into writing a book, Tuning, especially the timing curve, is felt more in the drivability aspect and not so much at the track. At the track, really total timing is all that matters there, so if you're looking for an optimal total timing number, then yes that's one way to find it.

The rest of the timing curve really comes into play with drivability, how well the car behaves in traffic, on the highway, hot starts, gas mileage, engine temps, part throttle drivability, including light throttle tip in and low speed idle conditions will all be affected with how you set up initial timing, the curve, the vacuum advance and how and where it comes in, and how much. Playing with these areas and finding what the engine really likes will give you excellent results in all those catagories. Makes the difference between a car that runs okay and gets from A to B to a car that runs absolutely fantastic. Without experimenting with this you'll never really know the difference.

For sure the factory settings are a bit lazy and meant to allow the car to perform well enough to satisfy, while at the same time complying with even a small amount of emissions compliance, but there is absolutely a lot left on the table in the drivability department.
Your engine, since it's not technically stock and has a RAIV camshaft, would most certainly respond well to a custom timing curve, as well as more initial. 6 degrees is really low and not optimal at all for a combination like that. That might work on grandmas 350 2 barrel, (even for that it's low) but not ideal for a camshaft with around 80 degrees of overlap.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Absolutely. To explain further without going into writing a book, Tuning, especially the timing curve, is felt more in the drivability aspect and not so much at the track. At the track, really total timing is all that matters there, so if you're looking for an optimal total timing number, then yes that's one way to find it.

The rest of the timing curve really comes into play with drivability, how well the car behaves in traffic, on the highway, hot starts, gas mileage, engine temps, part throttle drivability, including light throttle tip in and low speed idle conditions will all be affected with how you set up initial timing, the curve, the vacuum advance and how and where it comes in, and how much. Playing with these areas and finding what the engine really likes will give you excellent results in all those categories. Makes the difference between a car that runs okay and gets from A to B to a car that runs absolutely fantastic. Without experimenting with this you'll never really know the difference.

For sure the factory settings are a bit lazy and meant to allow the car to perform well enough to satisfy, while at the same time complying with even a small amount of emissions compliance, but there is absolutely a lot left on the table in the drivability department.
Your engine, since it's not technically stock and has a RAIV camshaft, would most certainly respond well to a custom timing curve, as well as more initial. 6 degrees is really low and not optimal at all for a combination like that. That might work on grandmas 350 2 barrel, (even for that it's low) but not ideal for a camshaft with around 80 degrees of overlap.

Mike wants to know:

When you speak of a new Timing curve, I must install the dist. parts that I have not installed yet into this dist., like the New adjustable Vacuum canister, Weights and springs from a kit and the Black, off round stop device with corrugated edges?