[Gach]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Mikes reply:

I am listening to you and I appreciate your involvement.

Since these Pistons are most likely going to be replaced, I am using them to teach myself where and how to measure them.

The Block needs extra cast flashing and the sharp edges bumped/removed, so that this procedure will prevent cracks in the future, where using a 3" round soft metal wheel in a drill, using slow speed to remove the paint. I can't depend on some shops to go out of their way in order to perform over and beyond their call of duty to remove casting flaws, we did the same on my Th 400, so we are good at it, trust us. I elected to service the Block and we have pulled the freeze plugs, only. On the exterior of the block, we removed most of the paint. We will clean the Block tomorrow with Dawn soap and a soft brush, in order that we may obtain our own set of gauge readings and precise measurements, ones that I can record in my own book, as I have been doing for the last ten years.

For example, look what happened when I brought the Heads to the shop and the machinist said that he would cut the exhaust seat bosses back to the proper size, then changed his mind and just installed a better seal over them.

When this Block goes to the shop, I will ask him to Magnaflux it and depending and depending of the outcome and if the Block is usable, we will let the shop go to work on it. I would have the Cam Bearings removed, inspect the Cam and Crank alignment in the Block, shave the Deck, and whatever they recommend.

I will bring the Pistons in on their Rods, along with the Cam and Crank to be inspected.

Once I get that report/information from them, then I will post the prognosis and we can talk about it from there.

Thank you all for your help, just to recap, this is either going to be a light build or if it needs to be Bored over, I just as well make it into a stroker SD clone. I will let the same shop build it as long as I get a warrantee for one to three years, if they will. It will come home as a short Block in a Bag. I have no doubt that I can build a motor, just not this one. It is one (1967 428 ci "special equipment" HO YK code) of 1035 ever made.

Ok now it sounds like you are definitely on right track. Thanks that answer allot of questions.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Gach

Ok now it sounds like you are definitely on the right track. Thanks that answer a lot of questions.

Mikes reply:

No, thank you.

Plenty to do yet, finding a reputable builder for this motor, I already got beaten by the Head Machinist. I am very Leary of people that claim one thing and do another; I hope I find the best for the job and that he takes pride in it. Then the decision of the parts, this job is in the best direction, but far from over.

[Gach]

If and when you finally resolve yourself to the fact that it needs to be bored and new pistons. 99% of doubt when it comes to a machine shop quality of work will come from choice of parts. You mentioned if it comes to that, you highly considering going with a stroker kit. If you want to eliminate 99.90 % of a questionable machine stops ability. By supply everything yourself. Long long a go, I realize this and would never have them supply anything. I just want to give you something to think about.

Here’s just part of the process lets say..ok it has to be bored and new pistons installed, ok now you get into the process, those piston pins are press fit, also those rods will need to be re-sized and new rods bolts. Most likely machine shop will require that So if the new pistons require press fit pin, vs full floated piston. In oder to do press fit pistons, what the do is heat the small end of the rod.

But here’s the thing thats a process that has long been eliminated with using full floated pistons. Kind of old school doing press fit.

[Gach]

So anyway The bottom line, is this buy a complete stroker kit. Comes with everything Rings, bearing, rods, balanced, all gaskets, rear main seal, the whole 9 yards. Sell your crank, so it needs to be turned -010 ( what ever) ok when it comes to using stock rods, I don’t care if they’ve been re-sized and new rods bolts. You are taking one hell of a chance, he’s why, oh motor all done, in car and everything great your happer then a pig in chit. But one day your out with car taking it though gears, then all of the sudden, rod lets go, for what every reason Guess what now you’ve destroyed the whole motor, specially if it windows the block.

The thing about stock rods is this, whats the history of those rods, with weather recondition or not how much fatigue have they suffered. Because it was over heated and donation the kind of donation you or previous owner of that motor has never heard, its like running round with a grenade with the Pin out, oh recondition they look pretty. You think your Golden.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Gach

So, anyway the bottom line, is this buy a complete stroker kit. Comes with everything Rings, bearing, rods, balanced, all gaskets, rear main seal, the whole 9 yards.

Sell your crank, so it needs to be turned .010" (whatever) ok, when it comes to using stock rods, I don’t care if they’ve been re-sized and new rods bolts. You are taking one hell of a chance, here’s why, oh motor all done, in the car and everything great you’re happier than a pig in ****. But one day you're out with the car, taking it though gears, then all of the sudden, rod lets go, for whatever reason. Guess what, now you’ve destroyed the whole motor, especially if it windows the block.

The thing about stock rods is this, what's the history of those rods, with weather recondition or not, how much fatigue have they suffered. Because it was overheated and experienced detonation, the kind of detonation that you or the previous owner of that motor has never heard, it's like running round with a grenade with the Pin out, oh recondition, they look pretty. You think you're Golden.

Mikes reply:

My original plan, If the parts that I have are "ok" and I can reuse them for street use, then, for originality's sake, I was thinking of trying, selling this motor to the person who needs it for their concourse restoration and is willing to pay out the arr for it.

Use the proceeds and buy a monster motor, shop till I drop.

I am not so sure of the value that this motor adds to my vehicle.

What kind of price could I be expecting, my guess with the Tri-power Rochester carbs. being true GTO and the intake being numbers correct, asking for $25 k?

What have I got to lose, I won't even run it, sell as is, just rebuilt by such and such here is the receipt and their guarantee...

I need to address this question while I am at it, please give me your thoughts on the matter, as truthfully as you can, "you own a 1967 GTO, Firebird, Big car and it is in concourse condition and this motor is perfect for your car VIN: 1967 YK code 428 ci HO Tri-power, you've upgraded from the Quadrajet. What are you willing to pay for this motor, if it increases the value of your vehicle from 100k with the period correct story to concourse matching code, correct now the market price is $ 250 K - $ 300k?

P.S. That Butler Kit has the Stroker kit includes the 455 Crank, I believe.

The above question is Hypothetical, but I need to get a real value, so I can benefit best.

My vehicle, by VIN. had the 403 ci Olds Engine in it from the factory.

[jerry455]

Being that the only Tri power optioned vehicle in 1967 was the 427 Corvette, adding a Tri power to an original or restored car will not increase its value. Unless the person is truly looking for that on their motor. If I remember correctly, Royal Pontiac, conducted some testing running at Motor City Dragway, using a 1967 GTO with a Q jet and then swapping a 1966 Tri power unit and it showed no appreciable improvement. The Q jet has proven itself to be a pretty good carburetor for making power.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by jerry455

Being that the only Tri power optioned vehicle in 1967 was the 427 Corvette, adding a Tri power to an original or restored car will not increase its value. Unless the person is truly looking for that on their motor. If I remember correctly, Royal Pontiac, conducted some testing running at Motor City Dragway, using a 1967 GTO with a Q jet and then swapping a 1966 Tri power unit and it showed no appreciable improvement. The Q jet has proven itself to be a pretty good carburetor for making power.

Mikes reply:

Dad was a racer, in NY at Mitchel field in the 60's, we my twin and I would go to the races and set up the pylons and mark their position with paint in the morning and then go play until his friends got us to watch him race. He had one of the first top 500 Corvettes made in 66 & 69, both with 427 ci, one had the Triangle air cleaner and the other looked like the small air filter went up into the Hood. Knowing my father, he would finance the best since he had to make payments anyway. He said that he would get them blue printed and balanced. Knowing what I do today, since he worked in Mineola, he passed by Baldwin Moton and I WOULD SPECULATE TODAY THAT they PERFORMED THE WORK ON BOTH THE CONVERTABLES. HE DID NOT HAVE THAT STINGER HOOD, BUT HE MUST HAVE HAD THE ROCK CRUSHER STANDARD TRANS. IN THEM. I sat in the car on race day and he got up to 160 MPH in no time, we would race from light to light on the way to the track. They turned that field into the Nassa coliseum eventually. We would investigate every corner of that airport; I remember seeing a car/boat next to the old tower.

You said:

"Royal Pontiac, conducted some testing running at Motor City Dragway, using a 1967 GTO with a Q jet and then swapping a 1966 Tri power unit and it showed no appreciable improvement. The Q jet has proven itself to be a pretty good carburetor for making power.

Mikes reply"

In my Archives, that I have stored, some information of test trials, I mean lots of them, that I found on one of the forums, it shows all the different combos of Pontiacs racing each other, if any one wants me to scour my computer for that data, I will be glad, but give me some time.

There also was a test on an internet show, where they tested the Quad. vs dual carbs vs Tri-power on a dyno, all worked well and came in at different times, but the Tri-power won on aesthetics alone. The look wins, at a car show, every time.

[242177P]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

What are you willing to pay for this motor, if it increases the value of your vehicle from 100k with the period correct story to concourse matching code, correct now the market price is $ 250 K - $ 300k?

Without the rest of the car, it isn't numbers matching. It
won't be a 400 Firebird. Won't be a GTO either. It's a big
car. Could be a four door. And there's only ONE big car it
is right for, because the 1967 Billing History lists it's EUN.

Supply and demand. You say you have something rare, I
say your list of clients is incredibly limited. They will walk
away once they learn you expect them to pay out of their
arse for it. And that assumes the car even survived.

He feels this motor will add $150-$200K to a 67 B-body.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by 242177P

Without the rest of the car, it isn't numbers matching. It
won't be a 400 Firebird. Won't be a GTO either. It's a big
car. Could be a four door. And there's only ONE big car it
is right for, because the 1967 Billing History lists it's EUN.

Supply and demand. You say you have something rare, I
say your list of clients is incredibly limited. They will walk
away once they learn you expect them to pay out of their
arse for it. And that assumes the car even survived.

He feels this motor will add $150-$200K to a 67 B-body.

Mikes reply:

Only speculating, I don't know what my Engine was in, because the Vin. number is not associated with my EUN number. Yes, we do know that the B body is the most likely of all the big cars. That being said, any B-body, in 1967 is a candidate for my motor, if it had an HO 428 YK code (Automatic-4bbl) and they call out that 1035 were produced for 1967 according to my records.

Now add in the HO 428 ci motors that were installed in say Royal Pontiac, an upgrade option from the dealerships, the Factory sent the 428-crate motor to Royal and Royal had to pull the 400 ci say and that made the vehicle warrantable. Some GTO and Firebirds got them from Motion and the west coast dealers got them and upgraded vehicles. The really rare one would be one that was factory installed, that supposedly never happened, but there is an exception, that one might have gotten through, somehow, some way, or so I have read. That would be worth a fortune the writer wrote.

Thus, there are possibly 1035 vehicles to claim a YK code HO 428 ci and they won't have to match their Vin. because they never could and I only need the one.

Since my Block has the EUN number, means it could have been a factory installed motor or was it installed on the line or shelfed and sold over the counter?

I think that when it got assembled on the factory assembly area that is when it received its EUN number. How it got sold from there is a mystery.

One thing for sure, this motor deserves a new life and it is going to get one whose life is the question and what it ends up in is another thing, if I install it in my vehicle, I want the best it can be.

By the way, if I were to pay PHS $50, for the 1967 Billing History that lists its EUN, could I find out the Vehicle this motor could have been installed into?

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Gach

If and when you finally resolve yourself to the fact that it needs to be bored and new pistons. 99% of doubt when it comes to a machine shop quality of work will come from choice of parts. You mentioned if it comes to that, you are highly considering going with a stroker kit. If you want to eliminate 99.90 % of a questionable machine stops ability. By supplying everything yourself. Long ago, I realized this and would never have them supply anything. I just want to give you something to think about.

Here’s just part of the process let’s say..ok it has to be bored and new pistons installed, ok now you get into the process, those piston pins are press fit, also those rods will need to be re-sized and new rods bolts. Most likely machine shops will require that, so if the new pistons require press fit pin vs. full floated piston. In order to press-fit pistons, what they do is heat the small end of the rod.

But here’s the thing that's a process that has long been eliminated by using full floated pistons. Kind of old school doing press fit.

Mikes reply:

When I get to that point of progress, I will see what Butler has to offer and we can tailor the kit to whatever from there. I like the Pistons with the Black stuff on the Skirts. I will be shopping for the part prices that Butler is offering through other companies' prices and products too. At least when I see Butlers parts it will tell me everything down to the Bolts.

P.S. I would go for the snap ring myself, unless press fit is better?