[Lee]

I would pay the extra and get a Terminator, if sticking with Holley. EFI is NOT the part of a project to go tight with the budget - you get what you pay for.

Also integrate the ignition system with it. A Dual-Sync distributor will give the ECU better (quality) and more (quantity) of information on what the motor is doing, which will make the system more effective. Also, by controlling the ignition, the system will run MUCH more smoothly.

I agree with JLM. There are a bunch of performance-guessers who "think" that throttle body efi systems "need" single plane intakes. Then there are people like JLM and myself who have actually tested, and found the truth.

The dyno chart attached shows my dyno testing, comparing a P4B vs a Torker II and a Holley Street Dominator. The motor details are in my signature below. I'm using FAST XFI Sportsman (basically an EZ 2.0 throttle body, but with a more powerful/tunable ECU) system, with ignition control.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by Lee

I would pay the extra and get a Terminator, if sticking with Holley. EFI is NOT the part of a project to go tight with the budget - you get what you pay for.

Also integrate the ignition system with it. A Dual-Sync distributor will give the ECU better (quality) and more (quantity) of information on what the motor is doing, which will make the system more effective. Also, by controlling the ignition, the system will run MUCH more smoothly.

I agree with JLM. There are a bunch of performance-guessers who "think" that throttle body efi systems "need" single plane intakes. Then there are people like JLM and myself who have actually tested, and found the truth.

The dyno chart attached shows my dyno testing, comparing a P4B vs a Torker II and a Holley Street Dominator. The motor details are in my signature below. I'm using FAST XFI Sportsman (basically an EZ 2.0 throttle body, but with a more powerful/tunable ECU) system, with ignition control.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of this here, but for casual users that likely won't put in the time to learn the software and get the most out of it, the Holley Terminator is wasted money. The standard Sniper is still good enough that it's going to beat an out of the box carburetor anyhow.

I also don't believe you can get the terminator in a spread bore pattern (as far as I know). I would still opt for an actual spread bore TBI over a square bore with an adapter.

I do agree however that if you're going to EFI of any kind, you're best off going with timing control as well. To the OP, while doing the conversion I'd definitely recommend getting Holley's hyperspark and dual sync distributor and set the system up for timing control. It just gets better at that point.

[78MayanW87]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

I don't necessarily disagree with any of this here, but for casual users that likely won't put in the time to learn the software and get the most out of it, the Holley Terminator is wasted money. The standard Sniper is still good enough that it's going to beat an out of the box carburetor anyhow.

I also don't believe you can get the terminator in a spread bore pattern (as far as I know). I would still opt for an actual spread bore TBI over a square bore with an adapter.

I do agree however that if you're going to EFI of any kind, you're best off going with timing control as well. To the OP, while doing the conversion I'd definitely recommend getting Holley's hyperspark and dual sync distributor and set the system up for timing control. It just gets better at that point.

Thanks Jason - At this stage, I would likely fall into the casual user category. Ideally, I'd like to have the flexibility to fine tune it down the road but initially, just plug and play...again, ideally...

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by 78MayanW87

Thanks Jason - At this stage, I would likely fall into the casual user category. Ideally, I'd like to have the flexibility to fine tune it down the road but initially, just plug and play...again, ideally...

The software used in the sniper lineup is a Holley HP light system. It's still plenty powerful though. I really don't think you're going to be missing anything personally.

You asked about complaints from Cliff regarding the sniper line. I think some of the increase in complaints may be sheer volume related, but I don't necessarily subscribe to that as being the only reasons.

I have run several FiTech systems, mine being almost 10 years old at this point. So, I have my biases. Without the FiTech system, the TBI Sniper never gets made. Additionally, FiTech owns the patent for integrated ECU TBI systems, so the primary sniper line-up at minimum is likely paying a royalty fee back to FiTech. That margin hit has to be made up somewhere. I think the basic Sniper line as a result was whipped together as quickly as possible so that the FiTech systems didn't completely decimate Holley's EFI business which had entry level stuff at close to 3x the price of the FiTech.

I believe their product and support has gotten better, but my personal opinion is that Sniper was rushed to market and it's quality as a result of that is/was effected. That is of course my own speculation though. Take it with a grain of salt.

All that said, these things are fairly simple and they all use OEM sensors etc. The biggest issues I see of any of these units, regardless of brand is that it's typically a poor install, or a car that has other issues going on that causes poor performance from these entry level EFI systems.

There are a couple things I tell everyone that is looking that you must do to get the best performance possible.

1. Don't skimp on the fuel system. Stay away from frame mount pumps and under hood reservoir systems. They are all junk. Get a new tank with an in-tank pump and run a proper feed and return line with the system.
2. The car must have it's electrical sorted. The EFI system relies heavily on constant and steady power while also needing to be insulated from electrical interference. If you have a rats nest of wiring in the car, items that don't or barely work, fix that before you attempt to install EFI of any kind.
3. Any vacuum or exhaust leaks need to be cured if present. Vacuum or Exhaust leaks fool the onboard sensors of the units into thinking things are happening that aren't. As a result you either get lean or rich run characteristics that you'll never be able to tune out.

Once you've verified all of the items above, the last thing to make sure you get correct is the install itself. This needs to be clean and methodical without any shortcuts. The biggest one I see is people thinking that clamp on oxygen sensor is good enough for anything other than the trip across town to the exhaust shop to have it welded up. If you cut corners on the install, you'll have a poor experience.

Regardless of the brand you choose, the above accounts for a solid 90% of all problems. Yes some make it out of the factory with issues, but it's not as many as you'd think.

For me personally, I still think the Sniper Quadrajet is what I'd put on your car the way you want to run it. Unless you decide to use a square bore manifold in which case I'd probably recommend the FiTech Go EFI 4.

[78MayanW87]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

The software used in the sniper lineup is a Holley HP light system. It's still plenty powerful though. I really don't think you're going to be missing anything personally.

You asked about complaints from Cliff regarding the sniper line. I think some of the increase in complaints may be sheer volume related, but I don't necessarily subscribe to that as being the only reasons.

I have run several FiTech systems, mine being almost 10 years old at this point. So, I have my biases. Without the FiTech system, the TBI Sniper never gets made. Additionally, FiTech owns the patent for integrated ECU TBI systems, so the primary sniper line-up at minimum is likely paying a royalty fee back to FiTech. That margin hit has to be made up somewhere. I think the basic Sniper line as a result was whipped together as quickly as possible so that the FiTech systems didn't completely decimate Holley's EFI business which had entry level stuff at close to 3x the price of the FiTech.

I believe their product and support has gotten better, but my personal opinion is that Sniper was rushed to market and it's quality as a result of that is/was effected. That is of course my own speculation though. Take it with a grain of salt.

All that said, these things are fairly simple and they all use OEM sensors etc. The biggest issues I see of any of these units, regardless of brand is that it's typically a poor install, or a car that has other issues going on that causes poor performance from these entry level EFI systems.

There are a couple things I tell everyone that is looking that you must do to get the best performance possible.

1. Don't skimp on the fuel system. Stay away from frame mount pumps and under hood reservoir systems. They are all junk. Get a new tank with an in-tank pump and run a proper feed and return line with the system.
2. The car must have it's electrical sorted. The EFI system relies heavily on constant and steady power while also needing to be insulated from electrical interference. If you have a rats nest of wiring in the car, items that don't or barely work, fix that before you attempt to install EFI of any kind.
3. Any vacuum or exhaust leaks need to be cured if present. Vacuum or Exhaust leaks fool the onboard sensors of the units into thinking things are happening that aren't. As a result you either get lean or rich run characteristics that you'll never be able to tune out.

Once you've verified all of the items above, the last thing to make sure you get correct is the install itself. This needs to be clean and methodical without any shortcuts. The biggest one I see is people thinking that clamp on oxygen sensor is good enough for anything other than the trip across town to the exhaust shop to have it welded up. If you cut corners on the install, you'll have a poor experience.

Regardless of the brand you choose, the above accounts for a solid 90% of all problems. Yes some make it out of the factory with issues, but it's not as many as you'd think.

For me personally, I still think the Sniper Quadrajet is what I'd put on your car the way you want to run it. Unless you decide to use a square bore manifold in which case I'd probably recommend the FiTech Go EFI 4.

This is great stuff, Jason and much appreciated! Regarding existing issues that you mention that must be sorted out first, I think that I am pretty good shape there as this is a quasi frame-on resto. I have already replaced the fuel tank with a Tanks and while the wiring was not a complete disaster, it was suspicious enough that I have replaced the wiring harnesses with Lectric Limited looms. Once I put the engine back in, I will be going back with new vacuum hoses. I think I'll be in good shape as far as mitigating any existing issues that may interfere with the EFI operating properly. Thanks again for all the help here and detailed explanation of your recommendations. Very much appreciated! Lee

[HWYSTR455]

No need for a dual sync with a Sniper, the hyperspark is all you need. The dual sync dizzies are kind of problematic, avoid them unless absolutely necessary.


.

[78MayanW87]

Originally Posted by Lee

I would pay the extra and get a Terminator, if sticking with Holley. EFI is NOT the part of a project to go tight with the budget - you get what you pay for.

Also integrate the ignition system with it. A Dual-Sync distributor will give the ECU better (quality) and more (quantity) of information on what the motor is doing, which will make the system more effective. Also, by controlling the ignition, the system will run MUCH more smoothly.

I agree with JLM. There are a bunch of performance-guessers who "think" that throttle body efi systems "need" single plane intakes. Then there are people like JLM and myself who have actually tested, and found the truth.

The dyno chart attached shows my dyno testing, comparing a P4B vs a Torker II and a Holley Street Dominator. The motor details are in my signature below. I'm using FAST XFI Sportsman (basically an EZ 2.0 throttle body, but with a more powerful/tunable ECU) system, with ignition control.

Thanks Lee. I'm not married to the Holley line, my thoughts were that being the most popular (quantity-wise), the support, not only from Holley, but other users would be greater but I am certainly open to suggestions on another brand. My goal with this build would be around 400 hp, so it looks like the FAST EZ-EFI 1.0 would be the route I would go if I went with FAST. Am I reading you correctly that that would be your recommendation. Thanks--Lee (also Lee here...)

[Lee]

Originally Posted by 78MayanW87

Thanks Lee. I'm not married to the Holley line, my thoughts were that being the most popular (quantity-wise), the support, not only from Holley, but other users would be greater but I am certainly open to suggestions on another brand. My goal with this build would be around 400 hp, so it looks like the FAST EZ-EFI 1.0 would be the route I would go if I went with FAST. Am I reading you correctly that that would be your recommendation. Thanks--Lee (also Lee here...)

NO!!! I would never use the 1.0 system on anything.

I would not do ANY of the aftermarket systems, if not also doing the ignition at the same time - these systems work MUCH more efficiently and effectively when they also control ignition.

That said, I am under the impression that FAST's "street" systems (EZ's mainly) may be going away, or possibly absorbed by Edelbrock. Edelbrock will have the street and street/strip systems, and FAST will be for the more serious racers.

If I were to buy a streetable system right now, it would either be Holley Terminator (with the distributor) or Edelbrock ProFlow4.