[Cliff R]

Couple of observations.

I get hundreds of emails and calls to the shop from folks who are NOT happy with their "electric carburetor" conversions and want to go back to a carburetor. The Holley Sniper system tops the list about 8 or even 9 to 1 over FAST or Fitech. The complaints are ALWAYS the same. Most liked or even loved them when first installed, then they took a crap and left them walking. Holley's service is so good they filed a complaint, put the phone down and low and behold UPS was pulling in with the replacement parts! Seriously ALL praised Holley for customer service, but after multiple issues and failures they were DONE with their Sniper system.

I've also noticed that a high percentage of the complaints I get come from folks with manual transmission set-ups. I have no idea why, but I've been keeping track of that deal and it's got to be 3 to 1 if not a bit higher. Perhaps those systems fair better with slower throttle application and smooth gear changes, not sure, but for sure most of the folks not happy with those systems are using them with manual transmissions.

Personally, and this is an educated guess on my part based on my knowledge with FI systems (yes, I've been using FI and custom tuning for decades, but most of that is with OEM set-ups on GM gas/diesel applications combined with Harley Davidson motorcycles using wide ban O2's and custom tuners) is that we are dealing with the same issues the factory did because these are basically electric carburetors and a wet-flow system. To add to that deal most are using a cold intake manifold (blocked or don't have heat crossovers) and heat is ALWAYS your friend with a wet-flow carburetor or TBI style system.

The other problem is that electronics are sensitive to voltage changes and fluctuations. Using a low output alternator down around 37-42 amps as many of these vehicles came with isn't going to make the grade when electronics are involved. Poor grounds are another problem. Many of these 50 something old vehicles have considerable rust no matter what they look like from the outside looking in. One would absolutely and for sure have to have perfect grounds between the frame and chassis, chassis and engine, frame and engine and battery to all of it. Good grounds are NOT always a part of the deal on these older cars neither are the wire sizing to handle higher amp draws as you increase alternator output and electrical load with modern components that require it.

I'm not trying to put a big black cloud over anyones "conversion" to an electric carburetor, just making observations based on what I've seen and am seeing. Personally I wouldn't touch an aftermarket TBI system with 200' pole. IF I decided to make a switch from a carburetor my system would have 8 bungs/injectors in a single plane intake, and FULL control of timing and fuel curves plus self learning.

That's from the FWIW department and a few things to ponder on...........

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Couple of observations.

I get hundreds of emails and calls to the shop from folks who are NOT happy with their "electric carburetor" conversions and want to go back to a carburetor. The Holley Sniper system tops the list about 8 or even 9 to 1 over FAST or Fitech. The complaints are ALWAYS the same. Most liked or even loved them when first installed, then they took a crap and left them walking. Holley's service is so good they filed a complaint, put the phone down and low and behold UPS was pulling in with the replacement parts! Seriously ALL praised Holley for customer service, but after multiple issues and failures they were DONE with their Sniper system.

I've also noticed that a high percentage of the complaints I get come from folks with manual transmission set-ups. I have no idea why, but I've been keeping track of that deal and it's got to be 3 to 1 if not a bit higher. Perhaps those systems fair better with slower throttle application and smooth gear changes, not sure, but for sure most of the folks not happy with those systems are using them with manual transmissions.

Personally, and this is an educated guess on my part based on my knowledge with FI systems (yes, I've been using FI and custom tuning for decades, but most of that is with OEM set-ups on GM gas/diesel applications combined with Harley Davidson motorcycles using wide ban O2's and custom tuners) is that we are dealing with the same issues the factory did because these are basically electric carburetors and a wet-flow system. To add to that deal most are using a cold intake manifold (blocked or don't have heat crossovers) and heat is ALWAYS your friend with a wet-flow carburetor or TBI style system.

The other problem is that electronics are sensitive to voltage changes and fluctuations. Using a low output alternator down around 37-42 amps as many of these vehicles came with isn't going to make the grade when electronics are involved. Poor grounds are another problem. Many of these 50 something old vehicles have considerable rust no matter what they look like from the outside looking in. One would absolutely and for sure have to have perfect grounds between the frame and chassis, chassis and engine, frame and engine and battery to all of it. Good grounds are NOT always a part of the deal on these older cars neither are the wire sizing to handle higher amp draws as you increase alternator output and electrical load with modern components that require it.

I'm not trying to put a big black cloud over anyones "conversion" to an electric carburetor, just making observations based on what I've seen and am seeing. Personally I wouldn't touch an aftermarket TBI system with 200' pole. IF I decided to make a switch from a carburetor my system would have 8 bungs/injectors in a single plane intake, and FULL control of timing and fuel curves plus self learning.

That's from the FWIW department and a few things to ponder on...........

Holley in recent years has taken a reduce quality and hand out replacements market standpoint. It's better for their bottom line to let some crap ship out and replace it then to make a quality product to begin with.

In regards to operation of these TBI's with a manual transmission, you've got to change the loop rate values. The software makes assumptions about what it's going on in order to get running out of the box. MOST of these things are plopped on top of a 350 chevy backed up with an automatic transmission. The basic parameters are designed around that kind of environment.

When there's a clutch and flywheel behind the engine instead of a big torque converter, the RPMS can drop too far, too quickly during shifts, or clutch in coming to a stop. The engine sucks up the film on the manifold walls as it tries to recover, you lean out and either have a big bog or stall all together. Bumping up the DFCO MAP cut threshhold and dialing back on the loop rate down function is how you tune that out. You simply need to make sure enough fuel is in the system while the clutch is in and there's no load on the engine.

But none of the manuals tell you this. These are marketed as "Self Learning," which is deceptive because they can't learn fast enough, or in big enough swings to overcome this situation. There is some tuning that you need to be able to do in order to get these things right, especially if you've got them on big, or really snappy engines.

I have an unproven and untested theory, that the guys that have trouble with carbs, because they don't take the time to learn how it works and actually tune them, are the same guys that have trouble with TBI EFI systems because they don't take the time to learn how they work or tune them.

[78MayanW87]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Couple of observations.

I get hundreds of emails and calls to the shop from folks who are NOT happy with their "electric carburetor" conversions and want to go back to a carburetor. The Holley Sniper system tops the list about 8 or even 9 to 1 over FAST or Fitech. The complaints are ALWAYS the same. Most liked or even loved them when first installed, then they took a crap and left them walking. Holley's service is so good they filed a complaint, put the phone down and low and behold UPS was pulling in with the replacement parts! Seriously ALL praised Holley for customer service, but after multiple issues and failures they were DONE with their Sniper system.

I've also noticed that a high percentage of the complaints I get come from folks with manual transmission set-ups. I have no idea why, but I've been keeping track of that deal and it's got to be 3 to 1 if not a bit higher. Perhaps those systems fair better with slower throttle application and smooth gear changes, not sure, but for sure most of the folks not happy with those systems are using them with manual transmissions.

Personally, and this is an educated guess on my part based on my knowledge with FI systems (yes, I've been using FI and custom tuning for decades, but most of that is with OEM set-ups on GM gas/diesel applications combined with Harley Davidson motorcycles using wide ban O2's and custom tuners) is that we are dealing with the same issues the factory did because these are basically electric carburetors and a wet-flow system. To add to that deal most are using a cold intake manifold (blocked or don't have heat crossovers) and heat is ALWAYS your friend with a wet-flow carburetor or TBI style system.

The other problem is that electronics are sensitive to voltage changes and fluctuations. Using a low output alternator down around 37-42 amps as many of these vehicles came with isn't going to make the grade when electronics are involved. Poor grounds are another problem. Many of these 50 something old vehicles have considerable rust no matter what they look like from the outside looking in. One would absolutely and for sure have to have perfect grounds between the frame and chassis, chassis and engine, frame and engine and battery to all of it. Good grounds are NOT always a part of the deal on these older cars neither are the wire sizing to handle higher amp draws as you increase alternator output and electrical load with modern components that require it.

I'm not trying to put a big black cloud over anyones "conversion" to an electric carburetor, just making observations based on what I've seen and am seeing. Personally I wouldn't touch an aftermarket TBI system with 200' pole. IF I decided to make a switch from a carburetor my system would have 8 bungs/injectors in a single plane intake, and FULL control of timing and fuel curves plus self learning.

That's from the FWIW department and a few things to ponder on...........

Thanks Cliff. Do you think that the 8 or 9:1 complaint ratio of Holley over FAST and FiTech is the due to a similar ratio of what is being run, in other words, do you think that there are 8 or 9 Holleys to every FAST/FiTech or are Holleys just that more prone to issues? Thanks--Lee