[jhein]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Here’s the problem with oil analysis; it requires multiple tests to establish a trend. They are correct; slightly elevated lead results COULD be nothing more normal break-in IF lead was still used in engine bearings. Modern bearing are faced with babbitt which is predominantly tin and antimony. If I were you I would pull another test when the engine has at least one thousand more miles on it along with an oil filter inspection.

So if the bearings are not faced with lead then that that would mean it's coming from deeper layers of the bearing (assuming that's still got lead) or somewhere else?

They mentioned fuel as a source. I buy my gas in bulk and it's 92 octane non-ethanol gas. I add Sta-bil and Lucas fuel treatment. I guess those could contain some lead.

They also mentioned blow by. My cold cranking compression was 175 psi +/- 2 psi. So I doubt I have excessive blow by.

[Formulajones]

On a bearing lead would have been the outer protective layer, after that layer you'll see high concentrations of copper which you dont have in your analysis.

Thing is I don't think they use lead anymore as the outer layer of a bearing that I'm aware of and tin is low too which I think is used as a replacement for the lead so I tend to think that's coming from somewhere else.

Being a new engine id do just as Hoosier recommended and go another 1000 miles and check again and compare.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

On a bearing lead would have been the outer protective layer, after that layer you'll see high concentrations of copper which you dont have in your analysis.

Thing is I don't think they use lead anymore as the outer layer of a bearing that I'm aware of and tin is low too which I think is used as a replacement for the lead so I tend to think that's coming from somewhere else.

Being a new engine id do just as Hoosier recommended and go another 1000 miles and check again and compare.

That's what I was thinking. That if the lead was coming from a bad bearing there would be other abnormalities as well.

I don't really know anything about shear but can that depend on how the car it driven? For example if someone just puts around and the motor never sees any WOT vs someone who gives the motor WOT at least a couple times every time they drive? And if that's the case should I consider going to a 20w50?

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by jhein

That's what I was thinking. That if the lead was coming from a bad bearing there would be other abnormalities as well.

I don't really know anything about shear but can that depend on how the car it driven? For example if someone just puts around and the motor never sees any WOT vs someone who gives the motor WOT at least a couple times every time they drive? And if that's the case should I consider going to a 20w50?

Unless the engine has trouble maintaining oil pressure toward the end of the oil change, or the UOA was indicating that a thicker oil would help on wear, there would be no reason to change to the thicker oil. Heat is the top cause for extra shear, harder driving equals more heat. More heat cycles from longer oil change intervals would be another area that cause extra shear. Some oils shear more than others. It isn’t a problem until the UAO comes back and says it was showing extra wear from your UOA trends.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Unless the engine has trouble maintaining oil pressure toward the end of the oil change, or the UOA was indicating that a thicker oil would help on wear, there would be no reason to change to the thicker oil. Heat is the top cause for extra shear, harder driving equals more heat. More heat cycles from longer oil change intervals would be another area that cause extra shear. Some oils shear more than others. It isn’t a problem until the UAO comes back and says it was showing extra wear from your UOA trends.

Makes sense. Thanks!

[TCSGTO]

I had Blackstone do a UOA on a fresh engine with about 2K miles on it and it had a higher level of lead also, around 50 IIRC. Copper and tin were low and everything else looked good so they pretty much told me the same thing as thy told OP.
Was running Valvoline VR-1 conventional with no additives and always ran unleaded gas.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by TCSGTO

I had Blackstone do a UOA on a fresh engine with about 2K miles on it and it had a higher level of lead also, around 50 IIRC. Copper and tin were low and everything else looked good so they pretty much told me the same thing as thy told OP.
Was running Valvoline VR-1 conventional with no additives and always ran unleaded gas.

I guess they have to say something about it.

I would not be at all worried about it. Lead will leach easily. It can get up to a couple hundred ppm just by a small scratch in a bearing. It takes almost nothing to raise it to 100ppm from fuel, a lead fuel can make the number a couple thousand ppm, and can read high for a long time after it isn’t even used anymore. The tin and copper are the problem metals, lead will usually go up when they go up.

[tjs72lemans]

My oil was last changed in 2021, or three years ago. But, I was only driving about 700 miles/yr.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by tjs72lemans

My oil was last changed in 2021, or three years ago. But, I was only driving about 700 miles/yr.

Same here... sometimes 1 or 2 of my cars dont get driven much for whatever reason, working on them or on something else, its hard to put lots of miles on multiple cars sometimes living in the midwest with a shorter driving season than those in year round warm climates.

If i have less than ~1000 miles on the car for the season I dont change the oil, its a complete waste, oil doesnt go bad sitting in the pan (or bottle) in that short of time, same for the filter. If the engine is healthy & not dumping raw fuel into the oil or other major issues like that, the additives neutralize any combustion by products and the anti wear additives dont go bad while sitting. My engines are clean lower mile rebuilds so no high mileage sludge or anything.

I also spoke to valvoline about long term use & was told the same thing, 1-2 years at low miles is not an issue at all, neither is new oil in the bottle for 5 years or more if stored properly. I have & use oils rated SN & SM & even some 15+ year old rotella-T SL grade.... stored in climate controlled area off the ground, shake them every year or so & again before using.

Valvoline FAQ- "DOES MOTOR OIL EXPIRE? IF NOT, HOW LONG DOES MOTOR OIL GENERALLY LAST?
Valvoline motor oils do not have documented expiration dates. When stored under optimal conditions, the product remains stable for an extended period of time. It can be used as long as the American Petroleum Institute (API) rating on the label continues to meet or exceed the requirements listed in your car’s owner's manual. If the rating is still current, we advise you shake the container before use to blend any additives that may have settled."

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by 78w72

Same here... sometimes 1 or 2 of my cars dont get driven much for whatever reason, working on them or on something else, its hard to put lots of miles on multiple cars sometimes living in the midwest with a shorter driving season than those in year round warm climates.

If i have less than ~1000 miles on the car for the season I dont change the oil, its a complete waste, oil doesnt go bad sitting in the pan (or bottle) in that short of time, same for the filter. If the engine is healthy & not dumping raw fuel into the oil or other major issues like that, the additives neutralize any combustion by products and the anti wear additives dont go bad while sitting. My engines are clean lower mile rebuilds so no high mileage sludge or anything.

I also spoke to valvoline about long term use & was told the same thing, 1-2 years at low miles is not an issue at all, neither is new oil in the bottle for 5 years or more if stored properly. I have & use oils rated SN & SM & even some 15+ year old rotella-T SL grade.... stored in climate controlled area off the ground, shake them every year or so & again before using.

Valvoline FAQ- "DOES MOTOR OIL EXPIRE? IF NOT, HOW LONG DOES MOTOR OIL GENERALLY LAST?
Valvoline motor oils do not have documented expiration dates. When stored under optimal conditions, the product remains stable for an extended period of time. It can be used as long as the American Petroleum Institute (API) rating on the label continues to meet or exceed the requirements listed in your car’s owner's manual. If the rating is still current, we advise you shake the container before use to blend any additives that may have settled."

Combustion byproducts in oil have a nasty tendency to turn acidic in the presence of moisture. I’ve seen it in aircraft recip engines and classic automotive engines as well. Changing the oil is cheap insurance to prevent acid damage of internal engine components.

[Formulajones]

That's why I mentioned the oils formulated to those specific situations of sitting for long periods. That meant in the engine and have been run to some extent. As you said they get vary acidic and cause corrosion etc...

The article quoted above is referring to oil sitting in its original container. Completely different scenario.

Just making sure people are aware of the distinction so there is no confusion

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by jhein

So if the bearings are not faced with lead then that that would mean it's coming from deeper layers of the bearing (assuming that's still got lead) or somewhere else?

They mentioned fuel as a source. I buy my gas in bulk and it's 92 octane non-ethanol gas. I add Sta-bil and Lucas fuel treatment. I guess those could contain some lead.

They also mentioned blow by. My cold cranking compression was 175 psi +/- 2 psi. So I doubt I have excessive blow by.

Lead was taken out of babbitt years ago. We used to have to re-babbitt Model T and Model A connecting rods; the original composition was lead faced. The replacement babbitt was tin and antimony.