[chrisp]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Repeat from the origional post.....

"I have a question regarding header sizes for certain power levels. I currently have a ~525hp 400 based 467 pump gas stroker engine with 72cc round port e-heads & OF roller cam, runs low 11's. can provide more specs if needed. its mostly a street car but sees some frequent drag strip time at test & tunes."

Forgot to add....

I know it is old material but keeping in mind others search out and could be interested in similar material for interest.

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Dougs 1-7/8 fit excellent & great for 500 HP

[78w72]

Originally Posted by ta man

I just spoke to my buddy Andy (Torquewar) he has ran the 1 7/8 Doug Roundport headers for years ..great fit and clearance. His car runs pretty decent too!

Thanks for the info, a few others have said the dougs 1 7/8 fit great and have very good clearance & bolt access... but another guy says they are horrible and wont even allow the rest of the exhaust to install and line up...

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I can say that I will never again run the Doug's 2" round ports, the bolts are a PITA. And the fit isn't that good either. I had to beat a couple spots.

I have to drop the starter to tighten 2 bolts as well.

Biggest issue I have with them is the collectors don't point straight back, they are slightly angled. By the time you get to the back of the car with a full exhaust, you will never get the tips to point right (thru the valance). Or even get it to exit behind the bumper.

That one funky tube that wraps over the filter sux too, I have to tip the filter to get it out when changing and dumps oil on the end of the tubes/collector.

I have a set of 1 7/8 that I'm trying to psych myself into installing, that part is taking the longest! I will have to rerun the X pipe and straight sections too. Not fun laying on your back.

So far everyone that has used the dougs 1 7/8 O-port says they install & fit very good and have good bolt access. First Ive read about those problems, Wonder why you had so many issues with them? But thanks for the reply. PS- if youre getting oil on the headers removing the filter, you can wrap a rag or alum foil around that area of the header and also put a zip lock bag around the filter when removing, catches any oil that comes out the filter... been changing my oil/filters that way for 25+ years with no spills or oil getting on the headers.

Originally Posted by Formulajones

The biggest chassis header we run on our stuff is 2". Worked well on Dad's 571. They are just out of the box hooker super comps and used them on the dyno with an exhaust system and made 724ho 764 tq with them. They fit the car nicely, don't hang low. Exhaust is a custom 3 1/2" from headers into a dr gas X that changes to 3" from there.

My 598 also uses 2" hooker super comps and made 786hp 772 tq. Again just out of the box chassis headers that fit really well. Same exhaust system..

When you get into bigger header tubes, at least on our cars, they all seem to wrap one tube around the frame and the inner fender needs to be cut. No thanks. So we stick to 2" headers. They are just street cars and don't need anything fancier.

We run electric cutouts on everything including these 2 examples. Not for performance but mainly for fun. In fact my 598 on back to back passes ran exactly identical passes through the exhaust vs cutouts open. So the system seems to be working well enough on that setup.

My 2" HSC fit nicely, good bolt access as well as easy to get a full size filter in/out... just hang to darn low for a car that isnt even very low compared to some other "pro tour" type cars Ive seen.

Thanks again for the info on this almost 9 year old thread, the power/flow info is great but the other thread was mainly to get input on how the dougs fit, I can get a good deal on some used coated ones so wanted to ask how they fit & of course perform. Sounds like 1 7/8 is more than enough for my power levels.

[Formulajones]

Seems to depend on the car. On A-bodies the hooker 2" headers tuck up nicely. On an F body not so much. Likely because F bodies just don't have as much room to snake 2" tubes through the chassis. In those cases the 1 7/8 have a better chance. I had 1 5/8 hooker super comps on my 2nd gen F body for years and they tucked up so nice you couldnt even see them. I doubt a 2" tube would fit as well.

[Skip Fix]

Here is Hooker 2" SC on a second gen. Camaro with the IA but the same on my Firebirds. Pictures still had the cut springs that were a hair low to the ground that were in with the SBC

[Formulajones]

Actually skip that doesn't look so bad. About what I would expect on a second gen F body with 2" headers.

If that were at more of a stock ride height I'd see no problems with those.

[HWYSTR455]

My comments about fit etc were specifically the Doug's D522 A-body 2" round port headers. I've run the 1 7/8 ones and they are great. That's why I'm dropping back to them.

I do wrap foil around the end of tubes/collector area when I do a filter swap, but you have to snake the filter out of there around that one tube and it has to almost go completely horizontal to get it out.

I think I posted pics here of those issues.

The F-body 2" round ports (D523) don't have that wrap around tube, and believe I had those on my bird at one time. I honestly can't recall if I had any issues with them, but if I did, I would probably have posted here about it. I have a set of Doug's 2" for my bird, will comment on this thread when I install them.

https://pertronixbrands.com/products...eramic-coating

Both cars I've run hedmans, hookers, and a few others, both D and round port. Many of the D port ones weren't coated, it was back in the day when the manufacturers didn't offer it. Headers were so inexpensive, if they got flattened whatever, you just pitch them and get another set. Pretty sure the Hedmans were under $100 a set for the longest time, most others were in the same basic price range. As I recall, every header needed doctoring in that day.

If I were to need another set for the GTO, I would def try the 2" hookers again. Not sure the impact on performance since it is a larger displacement and higher flowing heads, but for the moment, I just don't feel like mucking with it, I still have other stuff to dial in.



.

[Skip Fix]

Found a rear view with no exhaust hooked up.
Where I used to autocross the TA Police academy driving course)with the Hookers , lowered, 23" road race slick there was a speed bump I could make it over going slow.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Found a rear view with no exhaust hooked up.
Where I used to autocross the TA Police academy driving course)with the Hookers , lowered, 23" road race slick there was a speed bump I could make it over going slow.

The trick is to go over the speed bump real fast once, then it won't be a problem

[Steve C.]

Or take some initiative...

We bought Headman 2-inch primary headers with 3.5-inch collectors and modified them so they tuck up to improve ground clearance.
From the collectors I use a universal X-pipe kit from Dr.Gas, it is now the lowest point in the exhaust system. Less issues with speed bumps

See a picture here in post #21

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...=848553&page=2

.

[GOAT8U2]

Another vote for Dougs 1 7/8

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Or take some initiative...

We bought Headman 2-inch primary headers with 3.5-inch collectors and modified them so they tuck up to improve ground clearance.
From the collectors I use a universal X-pipe kit from Dr.Gas, it is now the lowest point in the exhaust system. Less issues with speed bumps

See a picture here in post #21

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...=848553&page=2

.

Yeah I've had to do that before. I have an old set of headers on the nomad. Don't know the brand but they are as old as at least the early 70's. They were on the 57 nomad back then and I moved them to the 56 nomad 20 years ago. One collector always pointed towards the ground so when I put the new pypes exhaust on last year I just heated the collector and moved it up even with the other, then built the system. Turned out perfect. Sometimes ya just have to make adjustments. Never really cared about it before, obviously running them like that since the early 70's lol. They never dragged on anything before though, but the nomad is stock ride height too. The engine oil pan is lower than the headers lol.

In fact on the Chevelle with its 2" hookers, the deep sump trans pan is lower than the headers.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Here is Hooker 2" SC on a second gen. Camaro with the IA but the same on my Firebirds. Pictures still had the cut springs that were a hair low to the ground that were in with the SBC

Mine look about like that on my 72, but the car is a little lower, think I recall measuring about 3" of clearance from lower point of collector to the ground, I will try to get a pic and measurement to compare.

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Actually skip that doesn't look so bad. About what I would expect on a second gen F body with 2" headers.

If that were at more of a stock ride height I'd see no problems with those.

Agree, if the ride height was stock or even ~1" higher on my car it wouldnt be an issue, I run 225/70 tires that get me by except big speed bumps or driveway curbs. My option is to raise the car a bit.. or more drastic header change, or just live with it. Thanks again for the input on this.

[scott70]

I remember my hooker sc would blow rust dust out the headers on my drag car at the beginning of every year at the track. Eventually the headers got pin holes and I had to throw them. The Doug’s were a heavier gauge if I remember correctly

[Formulajones]

The thing to remember is, these off the shelf headers are all designed around stock parts. Meaning stock motor mounts, stock frames, stock steering mechanisms and stock ride height. That's what these headers are designed for.

If any of those things change then it's up in the air whether or not you get a good fitment. Even reproduction stock parts aren't always exact, like motor mounts as an example, and any slight change there makes even bigger changes with header fitment.

One good example I see all the time are with 1st gen camaros with BBC's. I can't even count how many times I've had to point this out to people. They have a BBC camaro and complain until they are blue in the face about how bad the headers fit and instead of the root cause, they want to bash on the header manufacture. I look at the car and tell them, "well this isn't a factory BB camaro, and you have SB motor mounts in there, so those headers will never fit like that. They get this puzzled look on their face. They don't realize just because the BBC bolts in doesn't mean it's right. Factory BB 1st gens have specific motor mounts that shift the engine towards the passenger side about an inch. So many people drop a BB in with SB mounts and then wonder why the headers are against the steering box and start bashing tubes

Besides that scenario, If you want something better you'll have to open your wallet for custom work. Coated off the shelf 2" headers are typically running around $1000-$1200 now. Custom is much more than that.

I live 20 minutes from McCabe who built headers for Nascar for decades before retiring to his own shop not far from me. One of the best in the business. But it'll cost. I haven't checked in a while but I'm probably not too far out of reach when I say he'll set ya back at least $2000 or more for a custom built from scratch header these days. And he was close to retiring completely last time I talked to him.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Found a rear view with no exhaust hooked up.
Where I used to autocross the TA Police academy driving course)with the Hookers , lowered, 23" road race slick there was a speed bump I could make it over going slow.

Is it just the pic or is the driver's side collector pointing more inward?

I think there was an old thread where I too was complaining about the pass side hanging down, and when I called Hooker they said "nobody else has ever complained about it".

And pretty sure several here had called Hooker with the same questions/complaints....

I mocked up the Doug's I have with the IA2 and E-heads, but I don't have any decent pics of the headers, wasn't my focus at the time, but don't recall having to do anything special, pretty sure they were even drops on both collectors, but don't recall.



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[Skip Fix]

The Hookers both point straight back but passenger a hair lower.
The step 1 3.4-1 7/8 Hedmans I got(Bruce at RRE special ordered them for me) pointed on so much they would have hit a transmission-Hedman corrected that for me. Also on side the collector was 2-3" further back so I added some tubes to the short one.

[HWYSTR455]

It just shouldn't be this difficult, or expensive...it's crazy...



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[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by scott70

I remember my hooker sc would blow rust dust out the headers on my drag car at the beginning of every year at the track. Eventually the headers got pin holes and I had to throw them. The Doug’s were a heavier gauge if I remember correctly

Yeah, I have a lot of money into my Mad Dogs. Sent them to Caps coatings to get coated "inside and out". I get rust when I pull the collectors.
Not happy, called Caps Coatings and asked them about it. They wanted to know the date of the work, I could not find my receipt at the time (since found it April 24)
They said the machine could have been plugged when mine were done. But I could not see much when I first put them on. Called Caps at the time and they said it was more of a clear coat. They are silver on the outside.
So I put them on and now have rust. And they are 18 gauge.
I paid 627$ for the coating. Even if I can get them to coat them again for free it will be 150+$ each way to ship.
Caps tried to say because I live near the coast they will do that.
Not too happy about it. I have a TON of work into these things and they are totally custom fit to my car.

[Skip Fix]

Here in Houston my headers even coated inside and out start to rust eventually.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Here in Houston my headers even coated inside and out start to rust eventually.

What did your coating look like on the inside ? Same as the outside ?