FAQ |
Members List |
Social Groups |
Calendar |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#21
|
||||
|
||||
I don't subscribe to the "too much flow" theory. In a closed loop system you have 2 heat transfer devices at work: Engine to coolant, and coolant to radiator. Assuming air flow is constant, heat transfer is mC(Tin-Tout). If you slow the flow, the Tout of the engine goes up to balance the equation.
When I used to run a reactor plant, there were a few things we did when we "put the pedal to the floor": Reactor cooling pumps went to fast speed, and the cooling pumps for the main condensers went to fast speed. Flow is good for heat transfer. My 67 FB runs the Champion 4 core, factory fan, Hayden 2797 clutch, and factory shroud. I used to fight with cooling at cruise speed when I ran an electric puller fan that I thought was plenty adequate. And I also thought I would have plenty of air on the highway. But it could idle all day in the driveway, running the ac in 117 degree weather. I changed to shroud, clutch/fan, and went from 2 core aluminum to 4 core Champion. Issue solved. I just got back from a drive an hour ago in close to 100 degree weather, and the gauge never got off 180. I think it is your fan setup blocking air flow. Because you are achieving significant variability in operating temps with changes in ambient air temp, I think you are in need of more air.
__________________
"...ridge reamer and ring compressor? Do they have tools like that?" |
#22
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Slowing coolant down to solve a heating problem is a myth, it never solves overheating problems. Heat transfers faster the more the differential is between the coolant and the radiator. That said, the more heat that is pulled from the radiator quickly will remove more BTUs from the engine into atmosphere. Any time GM engineering was having an engine cooling problem, they went to higher output waterpumps, spun the waterpumps faster, and in one instance used dual thermostats in the water crossover to move a higher volume of water faster with more pressure to solve overheating problems. Any factory fix engineered by GM never involved slowing the volume of water down. When running oval track Pontiac engines I have had heating problems more than once. Pontiacs have always had a tendency to run hot and require everything to be working properly and all the proper parts in the cooling system to run without overheating, especially in a racing situation. Solving them never included slowing down, or restricting flow through any part of the cooling system. The physics apply to any brand of cooling system, they don't change, they remain constant. Question to the OP, is there a spring in the lower hose to prevent it from collapsing at cruise speed? |
#23
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
This is why I ask questions. I didn't even think about that. No. There is no spring in the lower hose. ....but there will be soon. My pulleys are 8" on the crank & 6.2" on the water pump. If I did the math right, that should be a 29% overdrive. I don't have any bubbles in the water, no water in the oil, or oil in the water, & coolant levels are constant. Leakdown test was 4%-5% so a head gasket leak or cracked head is less likely. AC condenser is at least 2" in front of radiator & there are no other obstructions other than the grill.
__________________
No! Do not try! Do! Or do not. There is no try. - Yoda 1967 Firebird Restoration 2005 - 1/25/2017 |
#24
|
||||
|
||||
Then why does every race car using coolant run a a restrictor?
__________________
Bull Nose Formula-461, 6x-4, Q-jet, HEI, TH400, 8.5 3.08, superslowjunk |
#25
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk |
#26
|
||||
|
||||
its simple science for those who have chased their tails with this issue before....
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk |
#27
|
||||
|
||||
As with many other Pontiac subjects, opinions differ.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...iator+too+fast |
#28
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
They don't, I never did use any form of a restrictor. If I can run a Pontiac on an oval track with no restrictors and no overheating it proves the point. Anyone using a restrictor is going to run cooler without it. Alcohol engines sometimes have trouble getting enough heat in the engines so a restrictor would cause one to run hotter. A restrictor will not make an engine run cooler. Running any thing that inhibits flow impedes heat being dispersed. And I'll ask you a question that will prove my point, Why after many years of OH problems so severe that the heads cracked from excessive heat did GM engineer a HO water pump and a new fan package as well as a dual thermostat water crossover for the 6.5 turbo diesel? No one thought slowing down water flow would cause overheating problems to disappear. Maximizing water flow cured the OH problems on that engine. Pontiac also drove the waterpump 30% faster on their A/C cars to deal with the extra load placed on the cooling system by the addition of A/C. |
#29
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk |
#30
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Correct physics remain the same in any OH problem, slowing down flow only impedes an already deficient system. There are hundreds of aftermarket waterpumps available for high performance use and none impede the water flow to cure OH, they all add pressure and flow. |
#31
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk |
#32
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
If you have any statistics to back anything you say, post them up so all here can learn from your vast knowledge. From the Flow Kooler site; Quote:
__________________
Brad Yost 1973 T/A (SOLD) 2005 GTO 1984 Grand Prix 100% Pontiacs in my driveway!!! What's in your driveway? If you don't take some of the RACETRACK home with you, Ya got cheated Last edited by Sirrotica; 04-25-2017 at 03:33 PM. |
#33
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk |
#34
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Also buy/borrow a wideband and check your AFR. Personally, I'd put it on a chassis dyno with a wide band hooked up, and see how far off the tune is. Just getting the timing and jetting corrected could cure your cooling issues. A 3000 cfm Black Magic shrouded fan and a BeCool 2-row were enough to keep my old iron head 469" (see signature) running 180 most of the time, in Houston heat.
__________________
'73 T/A (clone). Low budget stock headed 8.3:1 455, 222/242 116lsa .443/.435 cam. FAST Sportsman EFI, 315rwhp/385rwtq on 87 octane. 13.12 @103.2, 1.91 60'. '67 Firebird [sold], ; 11.27 @ 119.61, 7.167 @ 96.07, with UD 280/280 (108LSA/ 109 ICL)solid cam. [1.537, 7.233 @93.61, 11.46 @ 115.4 w/ old UD 288/296 108 hydraulic cam] Feb '05 HPP, home-ported "16" D-ports, dished pistons (pump gas only), 3.42 gears, 275/60 DR's, 750DP, T2, full exhaust |
#35
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
No! Do not try! Do! Or do not. There is no try. - Yoda 1967 Firebird Restoration 2005 - 1/25/2017 |
#36
|
||||
|
||||
Is slow flow better or faster flow better?
Attached is a graph I copied a while ago for a radiator from a manufacturer's site, (I don't remember who). It can be clearly seen that the heat transfer rate in BTU's/min INCREASES as the airflow and/or coolant flow rate increases.
Not only that, if slower is better, reducing coolant flow rate to zero should be the best.........unless there is some happy spot where it's the best. Problem here would be to find that happy spot and use a constant speed pump which the automotive engineers did not design in....... Can't argue with Physics. George
__________________
"...out to my ol'55, I pulled away slowly, feeling so holy, god knows i was feeling alive"....written by Tom Wait from the Eagles' Live From The Forum |
#37
|
||||
|
||||
Maybe I missed it, but is there any kind of air dam under the radiator to help create a low pressure spot behind the radiator? In conjunction with a proper fan shroud air flow shouldn't be an issue.
__________________
__________________________________________ "How I learned to stop worrying and love the OHC Pontiac L6" The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 3 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011, 2012 & 2015!) 1969 Firebird with a turbo'd Pontiac L6 controlled by a MegaSquirt 3 and backed with a microsquirt controlled 4L60e and 4.56 gears! (Drag Week 2018!) |
#38
|
||||
|
||||
"....unless there is some happy spot where it's the best. Problem here would be to find that happy spot..."
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...nmKhoCURzw_wcB http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Water-...r-Kit,605.html https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...TciRoCD3vw_wcB http://www.jegs.com/i/Canton-Racing-..._O9hoCdlLw_wcB https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...ul-hoCjJ_w_wcB " just make certain that there is a restrictor with an inside diameter about 11/16 inch in the single tube thats feeds into the radiator. This is important because there is no thermostat in the system, and overall flow volume will be controlled by the size of this orifice.If it is too large,the water will flow through the system too quickly ,and if it is too small,the water will flow too slowly!" said by THE SMOKEY YUNICK!..." Apparently this is a subject that has been hotly debated for many years. https://www.trifive.com/forums/archi...p/t-60820.html http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=69033 http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/sh...d/174080/pid// My opinion is that there can probably be slight variations in coolant flow which will be OK, IF & ONLY IF there is enuff air flow thru the radiator. And, as mentioned, some radiators will remove more heat from the coolant than others, with the same flow rate & air flow cfm. I suppose the only way to know which parts will cool your particular engine better, would be to try all possible combination of parts, in your car, the way you drive. Not everybody has the $$ to try many combos. But, many do. It would be nice if some of you guys who have plenty to spend would do some extensive cooling equipment testing. Overheating is a VERY common problem, brought up occasionally on all Pontiac forums. It would be nice to know, for sure, exactly which type & brands of radiators cool best, which fans actually cool best, which pumps actually cool best, etc, etc. Last edited by ponyakr; 04-25-2017 at 07:29 PM. |
#39
|
||||
|
||||
For the people that choose to ignore physics there are restrictor washers. As long as the radiator has plenty of airflow and area, you cannot pump water too fast through a cooling system.
If you don't have enough radiator area or airflow through it, your fighting a losing battle from the beginning. Restrictor washers won't fix it either. Restrictor washers will raise the pressure of the coolant on the high pressure side of the pump possibly reducing cavitation from a poor impeller design, a band aid for another problem which should be addressed and repaired.
__________________
Brad Yost 1973 T/A (SOLD) 2005 GTO 1984 Grand Prix 100% Pontiacs in my driveway!!! What's in your driveway? If you don't take some of the RACETRACK home with you, Ya got cheated Last edited by Sirrotica; 04-25-2017 at 07:16 PM. |
#40
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Now pull the timing down, and see how it runs.
__________________
'73 T/A (clone). Low budget stock headed 8.3:1 455, 222/242 116lsa .443/.435 cam. FAST Sportsman EFI, 315rwhp/385rwtq on 87 octane. 13.12 @103.2, 1.91 60'. '67 Firebird [sold], ; 11.27 @ 119.61, 7.167 @ 96.07, with UD 280/280 (108LSA/ 109 ICL)solid cam. [1.537, 7.233 @93.61, 11.46 @ 115.4 w/ old UD 288/296 108 hydraulic cam] Feb '05 HPP, home-ported "16" D-ports, dished pistons (pump gas only), 3.42 gears, 275/60 DR's, 750DP, T2, full exhaust |
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|