[oldinjun]

My budget does not permit the build-up of a Ford 9 inch right now, so I'll have to use the '67 GTO 10 bolt that I've sunk some money into. It has 3.90 Ricmond gears, Moser axles, and an Auburn posi. The car is a '63 Lemans weighing about 3200-3400 lbs. 428 Pontiac, making approx. 450 HP, TH 400 with B&M stage 3 shift kit and 11" conveter. This rear end already has bolt-in axle retainers, and I've heard they're fairly stout for 10 bolts. It hangs on 36" ladder bars, and I'm running 28"x 10.5" M/T slicks. I expect it to hook up pretty good when I get it all dialed in, and that's my concern. Can anyone tell me what kind of life expectancy I can look forward to, or anything else I can do to help this one live a while? I have this fear of leaving gear oil and bits of ring and pinion all over the track. What kind of power would you expect this unit as built to handle? As this car progresses, I'll put my money into the correct pieces... Live and learn! Thanks, Joel

[oldinjun]

My budget does not permit the build-up of a Ford 9 inch right now, so I'll have to use the '67 GTO 10 bolt that I've sunk some money into. It has 3.90 Ricmond gears, Moser axles, and an Auburn posi. The car is a '63 Lemans weighing about 3200-3400 lbs. 428 Pontiac, making approx. 450 HP, TH 400 with B&M stage 3 shift kit and 11" conveter. This rear end already has bolt-in axle retainers, and I've heard they're fairly stout for 10 bolts. It hangs on 36" ladder bars, and I'm running 28"x 10.5" M/T slicks. I expect it to hook up pretty good when I get it all dialed in, and that's my concern. Can anyone tell me what kind of life expectancy I can look forward to, or anything else I can do to help this one live a while? I have this fear of leaving gear oil and bits of ring and pinion all over the track. What kind of power would you expect this unit as built to handle? As this car progresses, I'll put my money into the correct pieces... Live and learn! Thanks, Joel

[Gooatee]

With that amount of power and the parts you have in it, I don't see any reason to sweat it!!!! I was running a 8.5" 10 bolt with stock everything but, richmond 4.10's for two seasons without any problems at about 420 HP. My car was cutting 1.65 60' times at that point. I was a little leary not having the c-clip elims! I would think you should be good into the low 11's with that rear, the way it's set up! I would look at your driveshaft more at this point!

[tikiklubracing]

I've been running 8.5 10 bolt this season. About 50 passes and I don't think about it any more. Particulars on my car below. To make sure you have the 8.5 gears, drop the driveshaft and count the splines on the pinion in side the yoke, (kinda hard to see but clean it up and start counting) if it's 30 you have an 8.5..On the axle holdin plates. I didn't care for the flimsy const. of stk. piece and replaced with Moser holdin plate. I live near Portland Ind. and decided to go with their axle, instead of stock, when picking up the plates. If this is race only, with spool or posi, get the 33 spline spool or posi., because your axle is probably 28 spline and you will then have to cut down aftermarket axles. Stay with 33 spline throughout, if possible. I was going to use stk axles and bought the 28 spline spool, then to get Moser axles in had to have them cut down to 28. , Oh yea make sure the axle splines are sharp to the touch as stk. axles tend to round in this area.

When usure ask. BIGGERISBETTER-78 Catalina, 3650#, 14.29, 400 .060, Q-jet, 3.73 spool, TH350. 15 yrs in NHRA tech ret. Check em out, www.nhra.com. or www.ihra.com, or to find race tracks www.chasinracin.com or www.staginglight.com

[Gooatee]

If it memory serves me it is a 8.2 rear in the 67!

[oldinjun]

Thanks for the input! You guys reminded me that I had seen a web page one of our Pontiac brethren had put up that listed all the Pontiac rear ends , their strengths and weaknesses. Has anyone seen that? I searched for it again, but haven't found it. I thought the '67 was 8.5 .

[b-man]

The '67 10-bolt has the 8.2" ring gear for sure. The 8.5" rears are quite a bit stronger.

Let's go racing!
www.outlawpontiacs.com/members/B-Man2.php
www.outlawpontiacs.com/members/B-Man.php

[KGTO]

I was always told that the B.O.P. 10 bolts were pretty strong compared to the corporate 10 bolts, just harder to get parts for. I went with a 12 bolt because I had one available.

1967 GTO 400 4-speed (416) #62's 11:1 solid lifter 6.8 Eagle/Ross full exhaust 11.80's@116---> UPDATED, heads race ported (287/200) and extras; shooting at low 11's in the spring!

[Goatman]

The GN guys run the 8.5 rear for quite a while before they replace it. Of course, the real killer of all the GM rears (and drivers) are the C-clips. If you still have them, you're wrong. There is no argument to the contrary.

Other than that, all you really have to worry about is the gear set breaking, which isn't the end of the world.

Causin' pain like two bad nurses.....

[Bartman]

I would get a rearend girdle/cover with the set screws that lock against the caps. It should live a while but anything can and will break.
Don't be sucked in to the believe that a Ford 9" is all that tough. You need to spend just as much or more to make them live also.
I would make sure to have a rev limiter just in case anything breaks.
Bartman

Ponies run but Birds fly

['ol Pinion head]

Fact: All the money in the world loaded in a factory gray iron 8.2 hsg will not make it any less susceptible to destruction when loaded with gobs of torque. It is the nature of a rearend for the pinion gear under high torque loads to "want" to rise & in a weaker design gray iron hsg, this will cause flex & eventual destruction of the gear or the hsg. The drivetrain engineers of the time were implementing upgrades during this time to prevent warranty problems. After picking up a lot of pieces from broken r/e's, one only needs to study the rearend hsg (material & ribbing) & carrier designs of the time to see what worked & where GM was headed.

Timeline 1966-67. 8.2 BOP rearends behind many 4spd cars are being shelled. What did factory drivetrain engineers do?

Buick redesigns their 8.2 10 bolt hsg. Recasts it with more gray iron & with bigger pinion bearings. Ends up, all their pinion gears are redesigned for larger diam pinion bearing. This style 8.2 was avail from '68-70.

Oldsmobile builds their 8.5 type "O" 10 bolt (12 bolts on the smooth cover). Production is set for their highest performance version to have 31 spline axles. Very strong rearend, though open window design posi carrier limits carrier strength some at the limit.

'68-70 Pontiac continues to build the same 8.2 10 bolt for low & moderate horse cars...some are even avail with the 4 pinion Safe-T-Track carrier. For GTO's & Birds with HD Safe-T-Track option, Pontiac engineers specify a special nodular iron center section & hot forged axles, along with a 4 pinion Safe-T-Track unit. The composition of the nodular hsg is such that it will resist flex in the pinion bearing areas upon extreme torque loading (pinion is trying to rise). The stronger axles are also welcomed.

For 1970, Pontiac deems the 8.2 ten bolt as not strong enough for use behind its evolving 455 equipped A & G bodys. Have to remember, up until February of '70, a 240 cfm 10.5-1 455HO was on the way for '71 models. With the 455's added low end torque & with future stronger 455's to come, Pontiac casts it's own version of the 12bolt Chevy r/e & uses stronger axles & a 3R u-joint flange. Interrestingly, 95% of stock Chevy 12 bolts do not have this strong an axle (something folks seem to overlook). Pontiac engineers def have their thinking cap on

For '71, though compression is down some, 455 torque is stronger than ever at Pontiac. Rearend wise, the 8.5 corporate is introduced in the F-body line, but with a one year cone type carrier. An 8.5 bolt-in axle A-body rear is used at Buick & Olds behind Stage1's & W30's. For '72, the 8.5 receives an Eaton carrier... no problematic cone carriers.

Through the course of dismantling & building
rears, it's very interesting that while 12 bolts were std in the '70 1/2 TransAm & Z28, they were not continued into '71 F-body useage. Also very interesting that the axles used in such '70 1/2 F-body rears were just the std 12 bolt axles, not the HD axles used in '70 LS6 & L78 Chevelles or '70-72 455 GTO's.

Editted for clarity
[This message was edited by ol' Pinion head on June 07, 2003 at 01:58 PM.]

[Jim Doran]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> '68-70 Pontiac continues to build the same 8.2 10 bolt for low & moderate horse cars...some are even avail with the 4 pinion Safe-T-Track carrier. For GTO's & Birds with HD Safe-T-Track option, Pontiac engineers specify a special nodular iron center section & hot forged axles, along with a 4 pinion Safe-T-Track unit. The composition of the nodular hsg is such that it will resist flex in the pinion bearing areas upon extreme torque loading (pinion is trying to rise). The stronger axles are also welcomed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Roger, how can one identify the 'special nodular iron center section ? Is there any different external markings on this 8.2 center?

- Jim Doran -Some Pics of my 65

[Kenth]

There is a big "N" cast on the nodular housing.
Kenth

['ol Pinion head]

Jim,
A-Body wise, the nodular iron 10 bolt housings were used, for sure, in '68, 69, & '70 Pontiac A-body hsgs when car was equipped with 3.90 or 4.33 gearing. I would also bet in the very few 3.90 factory geared '69 GP's. The nodular hsng may have been used in some specially ordered '67 A-body rearends as well...just have not seen one yet The nodular hsg carries a cast N on the front side of the center housing & each year nodular center hsg will have a different casting number than same year gray iron hsg. Trying to put together a log of all of these numbers & location of the "N"s.

In Firebird 8.2 Pontiac r/e's, a nodular hsg was used in the factory 3.90 rearends in '68 & 69, & def in the '69 3.55 HD Safe-T-Tracks rearends in RAIII T/A's & Birds equipped with HD Safe-T-Track. Not sure about '67's, but would not surprise me if there was a twin traction bar nodular case r/e for HD Safe-T-Track '67 Birds.

[oldinjun]

Thanks again folks, I also have the old rear end out of my wife's '72 formula 400 that we sold a couple of years ago. I'll be checking that one out based on what you guys have said. That car was a factory 4 speed, with 3.08 gears I think. I had swapped out that rear for a '78 T/A rear with 3.23 gears, posi , and disc brakes. Maybe this old bird rear is a decent build-up candidate.