[LeMans70Sport]

Just got this months Hot Rod mag which featured a shoot out with cars running on 93 octane gas. The vast majority were big block Chevy's running in the 9-10 second range. Are there no street legal Pontiac's out there that can compete on 93 octane? There were no Buicks or Olds either. Either we can't compete on the street or Hot Rod is biased.

[FantomPoncho]

I'm surprised at some of the responses to this thread. There are other threads on this BB where egos try to outdo each other with their 8-9 sec street cars. I'm Pontiac to the bone, but I read all the "corporate" mags to know how the others think.

It so easy to blast the source of the article by saying you wipe your a$$ with HR. However, if the article was done by any other rag, it still brings to light the stark reality that HR, in my opinion, defined what a really fast street car is.

Every car that competed was required to drive 30 minutes in stop-and-go traffic, without shutting off (or you are dq'ed). Once at the track, they are given 30 minutes before making 3 passes. They were NOT allowed to have their hoods up prior to making passes. All of the cars were tech'ed prior to the 30 minute drive and were required to drain their fuel and were watched as they filled up with 93 octane.

How many of you on this board who claim to have 8 sec "street" cars could do this? I wonder...

As far as I'm concerned, this only presents a challenge to the Pontiac lovers of this world. Anything is possible with the right motivation (and lots 'o $$$).

[Ray Cox]

I dont have the article so I have no clue of what the rules are, but is it a no power adder race??

[Stuart]

I do like Freiberger as the editor. He's a down and dirty gearhead plus he's a decent writer, which is a pretty hard combination to find in motojournalism these days. Hot Rod has run a fair amount of Pontiac-related articles in the last couple years, although I suppose they do have to play to the majority (as in small block chevy) to keep their advertisers happy.

The best guy out there today, at least in mainstream media, is Peter Egan (Road and Track, and Cycle World.) That guy can write.

[Tom McQueen]

Hot Rod Magazine is a lot like the old Columbia House record deal where you subscribed and they sent you a bunch of bad music every month. A couple times a year you actually got some music that you kept.
I still buy an average of ~2 issues a year off the news stand. On occasion they have some article I find relevant and want to have, but it aint very often.

[FantomPoncho]

Also keep in mind that this was not an event that you just showed up for and entered. HR hand-picked all these cars out of thousands of entries. Going back and looking at the cars they chose and the cars they dropped, it seemed like the cars that were chosen were cars that APPEARED the most streetable. If your car looks like a full-on race car, i.e. no interior, no accessories, etc., you probably have less chance of getting chosen.

[mikeb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian Baker:
You mean people still read this mag?

I heard Frieburger was holding the reins now, I'll have to check it out. In the recent past though, it was only suitable for coffee tables at nursing homes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They just revamped it and it actually is more "in touch" now with some good articles. I was just about to let my subscription lapse when the change in format happened. So far I like the changes.

You can definitely tell that Frieburger is making some decisions there now.

[tikiklubracing]

Brian; they lowered the price to 10.00 a yr. It's hard to pass that up after 20 yrs. of subscribing. I did like the LT-1 article.

[pchris]

Ray I think it was. But then again I thought I sat a turbo Nova too. I'll have to check it when I get home.

[73LeMans]

Hate to admit it, but Ventura is right: We had to expect Chevy to dominate this competition. I didnt think a nataurally aspirated car would do it, as Turbos and Superchargers are so popular now, but Im still impressed by the relative simplicty of the car that took it.

So let me play devils advocate (somewhat). Do we all think a pump gas powered Pontiac can fall in the top five of this class? Seriously--900+ RWHP is what it takes to win here. Can Pontiacs do that with reliability and 10.0:1 CR? Youre talking to a kid who took the hard way to only 575 HP - i.e. 408 CI / 12.5 CR so Im not quite convinced, but with the stoker kits out there, 500+ CI is available to us Pontiac guys now; Can it be done? And even if it could....what would this cost? $25,000?

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Might take an ATI Procharger, but stay tuned for next year and a low 8 second Pontiac on 93 octane Pump gas.

[Maximum Race Engines]

Ray-
The only rules were that the car had to drive the rush hour traffic, without going in front of or falling behind either of the lead/chase vehicles. The cars must pass tech for the class they are running, for eg: cars in the 9's must pass NHRA teh for cars in the 9's ,etc... You must run 93 octane Rocket brand fuel, which I will say is tons more forgiving than the weasle piss 93 octane from the pump. It is a race gas blend at 93 octane without all the additives you would get on the street. Guys were running 12.1-13.1 compression on nitrous. I am not saying it is an all out race gas but it will definitely work tons better than the pump stuff. You get 15 gallons of this and must make the cruise and 3 passes,single file, you are not running an opponent. The 3 combined fastest passes will win. The cars get tech'd at Comp Cams facility, they drain your gas and use theres, you bring it back to the parking lot, and the car gets blocked off, unable to be touched from there on with the exception of checking bottle pressure in the trunk if need be. Even then you must have a Comp official there to see what you are doing. Tire pressure can also be checked, but nothing under the hood can be done. It would be smart to get there the thurseday before the event for test and tune as they run till 11pm and you can see what the weather will be like, but I will say the track works very nice. There are no engine specifications you must follow. Run what ya brung! And run it on 93 octane. The cruise is a bit brutal so hopefully you have no overheating problems. You get some time between rounds to allow for cool down. Other than that there are no further rules. Anything else just let me know.

Joe Pontiac
Maximum Race Engines
www.maximumraceengines.com
[email protected]

[FantomPoncho]

ANYTHING was legal, as long as it passed tech, made the commute, and ran on pump gas. Many cars were loaded to the gills with nitrous. There was a turbo car there. I don't remember if there was any supercharged cars.

The winner had a 565ci rat with a ton 'o nitrous.

[Junkyard Dog]

Ray, they allowed power adders. There were specifically turbos and nitrous.

[mikeb]

I was also looking for ponchos and saw none. Just chevys and fords, the occasional chrysler product, and I think one GN. I know there have to be some clean ponchos somewhere that could compete quite well in those drags.

[Maximum Race Engines]

I believe the next one will be next year. I don't have the gravity or weight of the gas, but it is Rocket Brand 93. They didn't tell us what gas it was till it was too late to get some and test with. I did check the egt in the exhaust, and it dropped about 150 degrees. So that tells me it is like running a race type gas. Don't just go by octane because it is a totally different gas. As for the compression, The higher it is the less timing you should need, especially with nitrous. Since the gas is not a regualr street pump gas, you should be ok, especially with the digital 7. There is no limit to tire or weight or cubic inch or nitrous. That gas could have handled atleast a 250 hit, especially with the weather we were haveing, the car was dead rich. No you were not able to change bottles, so the more you have the better you will be especially with a big hit. As for 32 jets, Just put a rich tune up in it. You can make adjustments up till the point that the car gets tech'd in. There were a few guys running 13.1 with nitrous. Some were running 2 stages of 300 or better. As for keeping it cool, whatever works..anything goes. Hope this helps.

Joe Pontiac
Maximum Race Engines
www.maximumraceengines.com
[email protected]

[mikeb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ray Cox:
I dont have the article so I have no clue of what the rules are, but is it a no power adder race?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ray - a power adder is legal but i think participants are limited to a single one. There were several nitrous, turbo, and supercharged entrants.

[Ray Cox]

keeping it cool is prety easy on my car, but a good back up would be a 4th nitrous bottle, that purged through a tube in the radiator, the nitrous would act as an inter cooler of sorts that you could do an occasional purge during the cruse

[bmpmdf]

I'm still wondering what they are going to do with the Ventura. I wouldn't be surprised to see them make it a nova under the hood in some screwed up way, either a sbc or a newer versin of it. What they should do is put a cool Pontiac in it and trick the car out instead the same ole #$%% low buck because it's a Pontiac. My bet is they won't want to show a Pontiac in a very good light or higher end type ride.

[Junkyard Dog]

They had a Cadillac!