[J.C.you]

would a race gasoline, methanol, mixture be feasable, or would carb calibration, or other issues be involved?

[screamingchief]

Let me first begin this with a disclaimer to the fact I would not consider myself an expert,but here are a couple of my thoughts.

Some race gas already is mixed with ethanol,in particular I believe the unleaded varieties are.

So I would think that a relatively small percentage would be possible.

As long as you establish if there were any present in the original fuel to begin with.

There might be some fine tuning to iron out a slight change in the fuel curve but it should not be impossible to get it right.

Some info on this site VP fuels.

[carbking]

"Expert"

"X" - from 7th grade algebra - an unknown
"Spurt" - a drip under pressure

"Expert" - an unknown drip under pressure

Various fuels have different energy content (dig out your Handbook of Chemistry and Physics). Gasoline is accepted to contain 117,600 BTU/gallon. Ethanol, methanol, and other alcohols contain less energy; but under favorable conditions (including the proper mixture) may make more power due to other properties. Any mixture of these fuels WILL require carburetor recalibration.

Suggestion - first calibrate the carburetor on race fuel, you now have a baseline.

It has been our experience that; once the carburetor has been calibrated for race fuel, A GOOD STARTING POINT FOR ALCOHOL IS TO INCREASE THE EFFECTIVE METERING AREA BY A FACTORY OF 2.2.

Example: if a metering jet of diameter 0.100 were found to be the proper calibration on race fuel; then calculating the area would give 0.00785. 2.2 x 0.00785 = 0.0173. The area of a jet 0.149 diameter has an area of 0.0174. This would be a good starting point.

If the carburetor in question uses metering rods (Carter WCFB, AFB, TQ; Rochester Q-Jet); remember that the effective metering area is the area of the jet less the dynamic area of the rod.

Using a mixture of race fuel and either ethanol or methanol would require a different conversion factor. The example is just an example.

You probably already know this; but if using a methanol based fuel, it is important to drain the carburetor following use, and flush the carburetor with race fuel (unless the area touched by the methanol is nickel-plated or you enjoy replacing carburetors). Much as I detest saying the dreaded phrase , fuel injection is probably the way to go with methanol.

Jon.

[warriors revenge]

come to the mid-west and buy your gas, it has 10% ethanol mixed in it already!! DAMN EPA!!! it is all crap!! alchol and gas do not mix! run one or the other!!


kal

[ofm7432]

AMEN Brother!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jack Gifford]

Definitely no expert, but here's a something I learned recently (accidentally, as usual!).
Gasoline and methanol do NOT STAY mixed. I never had occasion to try mixing them until a few weeks ago. My 1958 Wheelhorse had symptoms of water in the float bowl after sitting a long time. Before taking the bowl off, I tried adding a little methanol to the gas, to absorb any water- it worked! Then, after sitting a couple more days, I noticed a line at the middle of the glass sediment bowl- half gas and half alcohol, neatly separated!

[J.C.you]

pontiac jack, if the methanol, gasoline combo will not stay mixed, there must be other things at work to make the ethanol, gasoline mixture to work.....?

the ethanol/gasoline mix is available here also.

[Tom Vaught]

JC,

Most M-85 cars need a can of dry gas put through them every few days to keep the water out of them. The later emissions cars with the evap systems/ charcoal canisters helped somewhat as
far as the moisture went but it could still happen.

Ford tried the Flex Fuel deal with alcohol/ gas but put it on the bookshelf.

Tom V.

[panic]

1% acetone helps a lot to keep water and methanol mixed.

[Jack Gifford]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J.C.you:
... there must be other things at work to make the ethanol, gasoline mixture to work.....? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ask a chemist. Obviously ethanol/gasoline mix has been sold for years. I just reported what I saw with northeast U.S. Mobil 87 octane mixed with pure methyl alcohol left over from my blown alcohol days.

[Rob]

Here's my observations, I've swaped fuel on carbs during dyno sessions, using a clear plastic water bottle for the drain cup when you get both fuels together, they don't mix. Looks kinda like oil on water you can shake it up but will settle from each other over time. I don't see how you could ever jet it correctly when mixed in same fuel bowl, maybe seperate bowls or seperate injectors would work, but A/F ratios would require different volumes.

Probably the main reason why you see anyone using Nitrous with a alcohol motor have so much trouble when the plates or NOS injectors are adding gas.

-Rob

[Tom Vaught]

Having an emulsion of Alcohol and Gasoline means just that, they are together for
a period of time but not necessarily happy with the interaction.

Given a period of time they will separate and find their own space.

Tom V.

[ventura7211]

July 23rd Prescott, you ready?

Get your fuel mixed and bring out the goat J.C. My chevy buddys are getting way to cocky for a class they've never won.

[J.C.you]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ventura7211:
July 23rd Prescott, you ready?
............................................
stuff going together slow, tried but not ready yet........

Get your fuel mixed and bring out the goat J.C. My chevy buddys are getting way to cocky for a class they've never won. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
................................................
was accused of runnung NOS last time, maybe a little Nitro mix the next time......

[ventura7211]

Works for me, I won't tell. Just try to help get us to run a small block weight. SO don't go to damn fast.

btw: everyone cheats, I know most of the "secrets" of just about everyone.

[J.C.you]

secrets? i love secrets......... fill us in........

[ventura7211]

Well, there was a certain car that had a under intake nitrous system in real street last year. He was told he would be checked at the next race he attended and he hasn't been to one yet this year. Also depends on the class, there are few cars with more glass/fiber parts than allowed, hidden electronic traction control on some cars, and the list goes on and on.