[Need A Goat]

Anyone in the Florida region ever do business with them? They have two 70 GTO Judge clones, look great. one is orbit orange the other is black. I'm interested in one of them, but the salesman I spoke to says the black one has "unknown mileage." What the....?

Is it even worth doing business with a dealership for a Goat? I've heard stories good and bad. Any siggestions would be HIGHLY appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

[Need A Goat]

Thanks for the help guys. I cruise, race and show my 96 Impala SS, and at every show if I see a Goat, man I'm there yapping it up with the owner.

Been looking for a 70 now for some time, but I'm going to hold off till I see what I want. I want to make sure I buy confidently and smartly.

I came real close in 99 but it wasn't the right decision. I've read Paul Zazarine's GTO buyers guide about 100 times. Good idea on the GTOAA!

So next time any of you PA guys are at a cruise or show and you see a big black 96 Impala SS, it may be me, and I'll probably be looking at your Goat ;-).

Thanks again!
Jeff

[bigpop]

Chris,that is a very useful story for all potential classic car buyers.If a dealer won't spend $35.00 for PHS I would be very wary,considering the price they ask for some cars..jeez.i was curious on the car that mysteriously looked identical to the previous one you saw,did you check the trim tag?All the best bigpop ps I have a friend in NJ who laughed when I brought up BLACK TIE CLASSICS,that told me all I needed to know.

[Doug]

Kurt,

About 6 months ago I saw an immaculate black-on-black 70 at a (local) body shop about 30 miles from where I live. It was near Tazewell, VA (southwestern VA)

I'll be going by that shop tomorrow on my way to the POCI convention. I'll stop and see if the body shop guy can provide any info on that car.

[goatseeker]

Jeff,
BigPop summed it up pretty well in his response but I've got to second his comments on never buying a car sight unseen. Like you, I wanted a GTO really bad and read everything I could get my hands on and spent hours researching and checking classifieds. My major handicap was never having owned a Pontiac before and I will forever be in debt to my local Pontiac club members for keeping me from making a very expensive mistake. I found a '66 convertible at a N.J. dealer who 'specialized' in GTOs and swore this car was a '#1 show car'. From my own research I detected some inconsistencies between the photos and his statements about the car but I was nearly hooked. Fortunately, I also found a similar car owned privately in the same area and the owner emailed all the photos, PHS, answered every question honestly without 'pushing' the car and even sent me a video which really kept me interested. I almost sent a deposit for the convertible but decided to fly up and personally see both cars before deciding. That might sound extreme but it kept me from making a $36000 mistake. The convertible that the dealer said was a 'show car' was a rust bucket that had clearly been cobbled together and looked good from about 20 feet but clearly did not measure up to the advertising. I went to see the privately owned car (a hardtop) and breathed a huge sigh of relief that I didn't get sucked in by the dealer's hype. I wound up with a much, much nicer original, numbers matching car that I bought from an owner who truly appreciated the car and represented it honestly and didn't try to shove it down my throat. I'm sure there are honest dealers out there but you owe it to yourself to do your homework first. Evaluate each car first for what it is, NOT what you want it to be. Take advantage of the free advice of this board from other owners who really love to OWN and drive these cars rather than sell them. Good luck!!

[goatseeker]

Speaking of Black Tie. I saw the same car I (thankfully)walked away from for $36500 is still on their website. Now the asking price is $42000!!!!!!!!! At least they haven't repainted it to look like a different car! :rolleyes:

[Blackcat]

My advice is to keep looking and bide your time! Lots of GTO's out there. I would find your local GTO/POCI club and visit some of the members. having an experienced Pontiac person on hand is a Plus when checking cars. Many times I have been called to check out a car with someone that heard of me and my expertiese. Hum, here are some of the ones I checked.
1. 66 GTO Conv. Went to look with the person intrested. It was a Lemans with a GTO hood and grills. Still had the LeMans taillights! Under the hood it had a 68 400 with 62's from a Grand prix. The lot swore it was a GTO but wouldn't sign a paper to confirm it. i pulled the guy away and explained what was wrong and we drove off. The car and dealer vanished several days later!

Another was a 64 GTO that was advertised. I went with My Friend and Former President of the LoneStar GTO club.
It was a 64 Lemans with GTO badges! Again the sailes man swore it was a Legit GTO But no papers and refused to sign a statment for us. Um, No GTO's had a U code 326 in them that I ever knew of! Several months later i recieved another call on the same car. I strongly advised the buyer to avoid the car. He ignored me and after getting his PHS pepers tried to return the car and had no luck! AS IS! he claimed!

Then there was the 2 Fake 70 judges from the Dazed and confuzed movie filmed here! I know exactly what the 2 cars were before they went throught the changes. The owner decided to sell them. Being busy he took them to a Classic Seller and told them that they were fakes and to NOT Sell THEM AS REAL JUDGES!
I saw them out front and decided to check and Yep! they were the ones I helped with a while Back. A sales man came out and pitched the cars to me as Legit Judges! I explained that they were not and He wouldn't listen and Swore that they were real! So I scrapped up some money to make a nice court case.(Purchase the car and the papers and then sue them). I contacted the owner and explained what was happening. He was Livid and went down and took the cars away! But not after several of the Important options mysterously vanished off of both cars!

I could give you several more stories of ripp offs that I helped save people from. But I think the point is made.
I've personally had my best luck through fellow Pontiac People and Just crusing the roads and the local paper!

[61man]

I'll second all the above comments, and esp. the ones about joining the national clubs, POCI, and GTOAA. These guys are great and I've even had one look at a car for me in Calf. Took a whole roll of film sent it to me for developing along with his evaluation of the car, It saved me, not only a trip from Ga. to Calf., but I made a new friend also.

[2FAST4U]

BigPops, at the time I wasn't as well versed in trim tag decoding as I am now, so it didn't help me at the time.

But the car when I originally saw it at the auction had a red interior(carpet also)/red top and silver exterior along with those weird wheels, same aftermarket radio, same cracks in the dash pad that had been painted red, B&M shifter, missing shifter and 350 motor, but with 400 turbo hood.
My 2nd time around all these things were exactly the same except for the fresh new, red paint job! -Chris

[bonneville Joe]

I stay away from these places at all costs. They are good to go to when you are bored and want to waste time but that's about it.

There was a place in Naples Florida that I went to. They had a 66 Bonneville 2dr for sale. I went there and discovered upon inspection that it was the exact same car I went to look at down the street from there 2 years earlier. I told the guy and he denied everything I said. Not to mention the fact when the car started it had a huge vacuum leak and it sounded like the car had no oil in it. :rolleyes:

[bigpop]

goatseeker,was that dealer by any chance BLACK TIE CLASSICS??Heard that that is his MO. Bigpop

[Kurt Zimmerman]

Another note on PJ's...

I emailed them last week on the same two cars, and am still waiting for a reply.

If anyone knows any club member selling their 69 or 70 GTO, I would be eternally grateful.
Will take almost any color, but prefer the black ones!

Bigpop- I could not find a listed phone number for the cars you emailed me about, only an address. If I can't talk to a seller, I'll just look elsewhere, especially an out-of-state seller.
But thanks for the lead!!!

Kurt

[kraigster4477]

I live pretty close to PJ's and I bought my first GTO from them almost 20yrs ago.I can tell you that lately they get alot for their cars these days. I was drooling over a black 70 Ram AirIII they had. But no way in the world was I going to pay $25900 for it. I ended up buying a 72 GTO that needs total restoring for $2000 with 46000 miles on it.The deals are out their.If the Judges are not documented, who knows what your getting.Good Luck.

[The Champ]

Jeff

The POCI national convention is in West Virginia this year. You might want to go down there, meet some people, check out the swap meet, and maybe find someone there looking to sell you the GTO of your dreams...

Either way, you need to join the GTOAA and/or POCI.

And keep hangin' around here!!!

[A455GTO]

Take a peek here: http://www.collectorcartraderonline.com

Happy hunting, Kurt!

[Need A Goat]

Anyone in the Florida region ever do business with them? They have two 70 GTO Judge clones, look great. one is orbit orange the other is black. I'm interested in one of them, but the salesman I spoke to says the black one has "unknown mileage." What the....?

Is it even worth doing business with a dealership for a Goat? I've heard stories good and bad. Any siggestions would be HIGHLY appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

[goatseeker]

Bigpop,
Let's just say the answer to your question is YES. As I said in the earlier post - I ALMOST made a $36500 mistake. Because I did my homework, listened to my gut and good advice from a fellow club member before I went up there, I didn't get taken but wound up with a car I'm proud to own.
I realize everybody's got to make a living but a lot of people still make a living by P.T. Barnum's immortal words: "There's a sucker born every minute". ;)

[Kurt Zimmerman]

I check that one every day- have three to look at tomorrow.

Kurt

[Need A Goat]

Here is the link, scroll down till ya see the two 70s.

www.pjsautoworld.com

Jeff

[David Holmberg]

If you are interested in the car, WARPed is very close by and between him and his brother they know Pontiacs. His brother just picked up a 69 TA in Texas, looks Sweet!