[70 Dream]

There are conflicting opinions here on the board and from other input I've received on this subject.

I'm planning a stock rebuild on my 400, and need to decide what to do.

STOCK CAST RODS

resize, check for straightness, harden by shot peening - how much will all of this cost, and is it all necessary?

comment - stock rods are the weakest link in a rebuild

comment - stock rods are ok if rpms don't get too high

comment - polish

comment - do not polish

AFTERMARKET RODS

get forged

Eagle was recommended by 3 members

are billet rods overkill?

many comments - use ARP bolts

If new Eagle rods cost about the same as reconditioning the old stock rods, why not get new?

Thanks for helping to clear up my confusion . . . .

Harry

[Skip Fix]

Harry you've hit on everything already! Cast rods can handle mild to medium builds but should be resized and have new bolts. That's where the machining costs get close to a new rod cost. There are even some cheaper forged I beams than the EAGLE type H beams. The new rods are made out of a better material for the stress of a racing engine. Like everything in life it's a cost benefit ratio. You have to weigh cost of machine shop work and stil having weaker cast rods vs cost of new stronger rod.

Billet is probably overkill unless you have a really high HP or endurance racing motor now that there are other options.

[form406]

polishing and shot peening stock rods are a waste of $ because you could have bought forged rods for the $ spent...especially if the rods are hi milers... get forged rods already prepped from a reputable shop...NOT UNPREPPED(unfinished) OFF OF EBAY!!! you dont build a house on a weak foundation, correct?

[70 Dream]

Thanks, Skip,

Form 406, what do you mean when you say to prep the new rods? If they are new, what else do you have to do to them?

[tom s]

if it is truly a "stock" 400 rebuild with a RPM limit of 5500 a set of well rebuilt cast rods are fine.If anykind of race work,aftermarket rods are in order.IMHO the weakest link in the motor is the rod and put in the best you can afford for the RPM and HP.Tom

[70 Dream]

I went on the Eagle web site and saw that their rods are forged in China.

Does this worry anyone?

Is this cause for worry?

[form406]

the majority of the more inexpensive forged rods (and cranks) are imported from asia...quality control or lack of can be questionable (ie. unable to be balanced or not meeting required specs for roundness)...then you have to bring it to a machine shop to be finished...if it can be finished...some are unacceptable then you are stuck trying to return or replace, ship back and forth or in some cases on ebay you are out of luck...paying a bit more and getting them from p-dude, butler, etc. (maybe stock rods from them?) you know you are getting a finished product ready to go prepped by somebody who cares...if you arent racing or towing you can use stock rods, have them resized then magged, not visa versa...i have friends that race with stock rods (from butler) even with juice to 6500 rpm's!!! , but its still a gamble...forged rods have been much more affordable in the last few years...just research like you are and fit your budget vs. use...its impossible for me not to rev my stock rods up in my 406 and when i cross 5500 rpms... im paranoid cause i have toasted stock rods before...which toasted my 70' 462 4 bolt main block, 2 pistons, cam, oil pump, distributor... ..i got my 406 shortblock with balanced rotating assembly w/ trw's for $300. ...thats why im running stock rods now cause that all i could afford...

[Schurkey]

Hell yes, it worries me. A lot!

NOBODY goes to China for better quality. They go to China because the Communist government is willing to prostitute it's population for amazingly low wages. Buying from the Communists is about one-half step away from actually supporting slavery. You ARE supporting forced labor, often child labor, and you ARE supporting an economy that has approximately zero regard for workforce rights and ecological matters.

Guess what the Chinese government is doing with the trade surplus? Buying war material, that's what.

Twenty years from now, after we've built their infrastructure and practically taught their people how to work in industry, the Chinese government will have bought enough weapons from the Russians and Israelis (and made some of their own) to go to war with us. THEY ARE ALREADY BUYING WEAPONS, AND STOCKPILING! It will make Iraq look like a schoolyard squabble. And the nukes are likely to land on OUR soil as well.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...9/154806.shtml
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/FC26Ad02.html

And to add insult to catastrophe, AMERICAN tax dollars are being used to develop Israeli weapons, which Israel then sells to China and other enemies of the USA.

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0509-07.htm

Are you prepared to send your kids to fight the Chinese? It will be the first all out, "real" war since WWII. The only reason we didn't kick ass in Korea and Vietnam is because we feared the Russians and Chinese would become more actively involved, instead of playing the "supporting role" as they did. The North Koreans and the North Vietnamese had NOTHING that could bring the war to North America. China does.

[form406]

i think crowers are one of the best, but double the price of imports....

[myckee]

Well Schurkey, I guess you better stop buying and using computers, get rid of most of your clothes, get rid of that late model vehicle you drive(manufaturer irrelevant as most of it is Chinese), get rid of your stereo..hell, pretty much everything you own, and go live off in the bush somewhere. Foraging off the land. It is the only way you will be able to avoid those chinese. Bye Shurkey.

For the rest of us who understand that our economies are pretty much irrevesibly tied into China, we will continue on with life.

Just becasue it says made in China on it, doesn't mean its crap. This is the same phenomenon with made in Japan after the war. Once people got their heads out of their arses, they realised that the Japanese stuff was the best in the world. I'm not saying everthing out of China is spectacular, just that it isn't as black and white as some people like to proclaim.

Therefore, those Eagle rods, made in China aren't neccessarily crap. I use them in my engine, and they are perfect. They were perfect out of the box. Within 1 gram of eachother!

[P@blo]

I like Chinese food alot and if their rods are like their food I could live with them. I thought this would add somthing to the Communist discussion.

[DiamondJim]

A little off subject, but....I am an Electrical Contractor, Commercial/industrial. Today in a span of about 5 minutes I noticed the following: the 2x4 lay-in lt fixtures we rec from Lithonia Lighting were made in Mexico, the recessed can lights we installed came from Korea, and the lamps we installed in them came from Vietnam!! We also use a ton of other stuff from China. The cat is out of the bag. I am as Pariotic as the next guy but if we used all USA stuff we would be out of business!! Just food for thought, FWIW. BTW, actual topic related-LOL, RSB motorsports also sells Scat 4340 H-Beam rods, they are a less expensive alternate to others, come with ARP bolts. Just be sure the machine shop checks them out good, a couple of mine were a little tight and had to be touched up. I would not hesitate to use Scat again. -Jim

[Bruce Meyer]

Who said its cheaper to buy Eagles than to resize stock rods? They must be getting ripped off by their machinist! If you buy new Chinese rods you might have to resize them anyway. Go American as in Crower.
If its a stock rebuild then the factory cast rods will work fine with new bolts and a resize.

[Kybird]

This is from Kauffman Racing Equipment. I spent about $150 for ARP bolts and resizing of my stock rods 4 years ago. Certainly an option. I respect Kauffman.

This is CAT's stock replacement rod. Standard length of 6.625" with pressfit pin end. Great rod for stock to mild performance engines. Rated to 500 hp.

$ 250.00

[P@blo]

I think Proline will also have a I beam 5140 forged rod at 6.625" in the same price range i do belive (250.00).....Pdude could probably give a little more information than i can.....

[70 Dream]

Yes, I'm hoping that Pontiac Dude reads this post, otherwise, I'll have to PM him . . . . .

I also need his opinion on the HB hypereutectic piston . . . . .

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by 70 Dream

Yes, I'm hoping that Pontiac Dude reads this post, otherwise, I'll have to PM him . . . . .

I also need his opinion on the HB hypereutectic piston . . . . .

If you search for older discussion of the KB's, you'll find lots of stuff- including, I think, from PDude.

[form406]

it was $90. to have my stock rods resized...as for buying imported asian products there is no way around it in daily life as we know it...imported products make more profit and are more affordable...the biggest american companies are outsourcing there (i know people taking early retirement because their factory is relocating to china)...and we have sold record amounts of weapons to china and india...talk to the president about that...back to cars...70 dream ill have to cruise down in my bird to check yours out...

[Half-Inch Stud]

I use SD-455 Rods

[PONTIAC DUDE]

I use either Cast of Forged pistons depending on
#1: customer application
#2: hp levels
#3: durability

Same deal with rods.

One nice thing about the cheaper line of H-beam rods. They are stronger then a factory CAST rod and with a reductiuon in weight. You have the benefit of quicker rpms with bottom end load and main area. Same deal with aftermarket pistons and pins.

But goes back to what your gonna do with your ride. Each case requires it's own answer.