[ramair2]

Is it me or are even the top dog hemis feeling a market slowdown?

$200k for a mint hemi challenger ..4speed..matching...200?? this car was 300+ last yr here..easy...

$260 for a 27K mile all matching hemi cuda 4speed in concours cond?

Thats low ball city...Last year that car is 350+ if its a buck.

this is inflata-price Barret-JAXON to boot!

one of 16 1969 GTX hemi convert went for 200K too. It was cool seeeing Craig Jackson sweat and say 'its a buy' etc etc. Nope didnt work!

Now the 1000000 dolar q is...is it people have tired of the USUAL top shelf drink and are now lookign for another single malt scotch or (RA IV pontiacs Stage 1 Buikcs?)...or is the market simply slowing?

BJ was saying in some cirlces that the orange 70 Hemi with 76 miles was 'a million dollar car'. Well its 1/2 of one anyway! (sold today for 500k)

One last comment...The only real top dogg car owners that sell at barrett are vette owners and guys with the hemis since (up til now) those crs have had very firm floors. (Seems like those two groups have taken up 50% of all cars today!) A RA IV Pontiac would not have that luxury in a no-reserve marketplace like BJ.

That may be part of another factor...OTHER reserve venues in AZ (russo and steel etc) may infact do much better than BJ since reserves are allowed? Wag on my part. If the numbers from non BJ AZ auctions are down like I saw on BJ today/so far, then I for one would be somewhat convinced the market is taking a temporary(?) breather ala the national housing market has been/is doing. If thats the case not sure where we go from here. Might not be such a bad thing for the market to level off some at these already lofty levels...

Thoughts on all this?

[70ra455]

Read the constant complaining about this on the other posts. It's going down ... period. Of course there are exceptions to the rule (like the 375 '65 Chevelle that went for $250,000!) Most of the big cars are down.

Look at the Judge Convertible on ebay (4spd red on red.) I don't think it can get 200K but remember this is all relative. It sold for less than 70K about 4 years ago.

I do believe if I had been at the auction I may have been tempted with the Hemi-GTX convertible with 4spd for 200K. That was the best "deal" on the auction. The Judges are getting about what Ebay gets.

[ramair2]

$445K for a 69 429 boss mustang??

then 150 for a copo 427 camaro 4speed??

wacko market right now

so much for across the board down OR up trend!

maybe its just a hemi and camaro overdose/hangover....

time to move on to the other top doggs marques like the 429 boss...

and...

ra iv pontiacs? :-)

[weranc55]

Prices have come down. I look at it this way. The cars right now are worth what they where about 18 to 20 months ago. The middle cars are the ones that are getting hit the hardest.

[WARCHIEF400]

It seems like the custom muscle cars are what some people are looking for. Custom 70 Cuda 500,000, Custom 70 GTO 125,000. I think RAMAIR2 might be right, market may be leveling out. What has been the top price for a GTO/Judge at BJ so far?

[70ra455]

Pontiacs will NEVER get to Chebby level because we are a strange bunch of people who eat their young and tear each other up!

We focus on the cars that are over the top in power and rarity. I just looked on their results:

'66 GP with 8-lugs really nice car for under 9K
'62 Starfire Convertible for 19K

There's lots of nice cars for reasonable prices on ebay and BJ but if we're all looking for the numbers matchig 4spd convertbiles of course their prices stay a bit high (but they're not as high as even 6 months ago!)

[GTOPLACE]

I'VE WATCHED EVERY HOUR OF BJ AND HAD TO ENDURE A GAZILLION CORVETTES, CHEVELLES, CAMAROS AND MUSTANGS, WAITING PATIENTLY FOR A GTO OR JUDGE TO HIT THE BLOCK. BUT BJ CUT TO COMMERCIAL FOR EVERY JUDGE PLUS A NICE 69 GTO. THEY CUT TO COMMERCIAL ONE CAR AWAY FROM THE 69 JUDGE CONV., THEN CAME BACK TO SHOW THE SUNSET AND THEN CUT TO COMMERCIAL AGAIN. I'VE MEMORIZED ALL OF THE COMMERCIALS. ENOUGH ALREADY. WITH 150 CORVETTES AT AUCTION, WHY COULDN'T THEY SACRIFICE ONE OF THEM? OR A CHEVELLE OR CAMARO? I EMAILED BJ AND TOLD THEM I WOULD NOT TUNE IN AGAIN AND WOULD NOT SUPPORT THEIR SPONSORS. I'M OUT !!!!!!!

[70ram4]

you are right PHil

[ramair2]

C. Jackson is a big Mopar guy. Other top execs in BJ are big Chevy and Ford guys.

End of "mystery"!

[Judge273]

I don't know about the market and whether it is up or down. Whether BJ is the place to sell Pontiacs.

But what I do know is that 69 Judge vert green/green/green couldn't sell at Mecum in 2005 highest it got was 100K no sale, and did break 200K at BJ a little while ago.

What does that say other than he finally got his price at the right time?

[ramair2]

is 200K for a 1/17 judge convert great?

I think we all agree BJ isn not place for pontiacs...however whats NEW is it suddelnly (ie vs 2006) not the place for hemis and copo camaros?!!

if true thats a huge change...or..the maket is down for these cars (most all cars?)

today:
260K hemi cuda 4speed 27k miles..concours..matching
200K hemi gtx CONV..mint..4speed...matching..200k?!?
200k hemi challenger...4speed..mint matching 200k?!?
150 matching documented copo 4speed 1969 camaro..150k?!?

pretty damning evidence we are slowing...OR...rotation into other top dogs (445K 429 boss??)....unclear..lets see what russo et al do in otehr reseve AZ auctions in coming days/weeks...

either way the winds are a-changing!

[Dave D]

I have been there three times ( used to live in Phoenix ) 02', 03, and 04'. I am restoring my Judge and will be selling it so I was not only interested in what the market is and the trends are but also in Barrett Jackson as a potential sales venue. I learned a few things:
1). The real market trends are best learned from the enthusiasts and collectors that are in the grounds looking at all of the cars prior to aution. You can talk to them, the owners of the cars to see what they were concerned or asking about. Hot cars always come out of a sale but are not always a trend.
2). There are only a few real big money guys. The rest are museum owners or reps and then a large number of dealers/collectors/margin players that have a solid line of credit.
3). To an earlier point in this thread there is some bias by the BJ execs. Mopars are a favorite as are the Boss Mustangs and especially the Shelby's. Nuff said about Corvettes.
4). Your car will only fare well on Friday or Saturday night with Sat the big money day. Simple to understand but there is a bigger dynamic at play. The BJ staff has over 6000 cars to choose from and will consign only the ones the big money guys are looking for on those nights. Other slots are filled of course but they have all year to play to their needs.
5). They will "short shift" your car on the block in an off day where they will drive it up in prime time. I witnessed this first hand on a Sunday with a 67' BB Vette that went for 35% less than the average of just the two days prior. A reputable collector and dealer I know in my local area has also seen them short a car that they already know a specific bidder wants. (Buddy bids on his own accord but the bill is paid by the collector)
6) The other auctions are truly a better guage for what is hot and the upcoming trends for real world money. I know a dealer that has had very good luck at Russo and Steele. BJ has the Boyd Coddington and concept stuff. They also set the bar for Shelby's and Vettes but the rest of the makes do not come away with any real market relevance in my opion with the exclusion of Mopars and so far this year it is pulling back.

Don't get me wrong....BJ is a blast with great cars and great memorabilia but if you are a one or two car guy like me it is not worth your risk.

As for us Pontiac guys..... I think we will continue to gain value but we are another year or two away from gaining big ground. Mopar bubble has burst, The Chip Foose cars are cold as well as the big buck pro touring set so it will be time to look at the W30's, Stage I's, Judges, RA IV stuff etc.

My two cents anyway......Dave

[70ram4]

I was going to bring my 70 to B-J next year but I think I can do better elsewhere,

[70ra455]

This is ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ... a '70 RA4 Judge MINT for $117,000! The buyer and his wife were so happy they couldn't contain themselves! A steal!

The market is DOWN.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by 70ra455

This is ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ... a '70 RA4 Judge MINT for $117,000! The buyer and his wife were so happy they couldn't contain themselves! A steal!

The market is DOWN.

This White IV/4spd Judge would have went more towards the 175-190k on eBay. It was low mileage/ heavily and completely documented/ primo example.

I would call BJ the best bargain spot for Hot Pontiacs this year - but certainly not the doctrine of Pontiac prices in whole. Don't expect to see this type Car being sold anywhere else at this type price. The No-Reserve format really put the hurt on a lot of Car owners. Reserve would have probably been at least around 150k zone if offered on eBay.

Just because BJ doesn't have a strong buyer clientale/market for GTO's this year, doesn't mean the sky is falling. Mostly it means don't go there to sale your upper echelon Pontiac at No-Reserve.

"The buyer and his wife were so happy they couldn't contain themselves"

They KNOW they caught it in the right spot at the right time - no reserve and no serious competitors. And good for them - full congratulations ! 117k IS A PILE OF MONEY, regardless.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Also want to mention that I "think" a lot of the savviest buyers are saying the He|| with BJ and their greed infested fees. 18% commission off of every Car sale ? Why make those greedy bastards any richer ? F them.

[ramair2]

BVZ

BJ sux for selling pontiacs no question. always has and always will so long as they only 'offer' no reserve slots.

what this thread was hitting on was that cars that normally DO SELL and sell for BIG bucks at BJ (hemi ebodies and ls6 chevelles, copo camaros) DIDNT today...

they were down and down by a LOT relative to last year...

so what do we have here?

a canary in the muscle collector coal mine or people sick/getting satiated of hemi cudas and copo/yenko camaros?

to me its an interesting question but one I need more data on/more auction results from (esp russo and steel)! :-)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Looks like the same type crowd doing business at Russo. Jegs IV and the White 36k mile/1 owner IV Judge both would have done much better on eBay. Speculators always predict higher returns from AZ auctions, sometimes it's true - this time NOT.

It's been a big picture in Arizona for a long time and it's getting old. I think it's wearing itself thinner. Prices somehow went through the roof last year - deep pockets stay home this year and relax. In return prices fall off this year. Probably next year won't be as many top level Cars (scared sellers) but tons of buyers hoping to scarf a dreamy deal, like in Jan.07.

All that Arizona stuff is just becoming a charade/circus. Last year it was a sellers market, this year a buyers market - and by a WIDE margin. It's never switched so much in just a years time. The economy hasn't drowned by that margin in past year. I say majority are just fed up/burned out on all the AZ hype and turmoil. More of the real players are just staying away from AZ. Folks who can afford to buy AND keep these Cars don't dump them like that in just a years time at a loss. Too many rookie/quick turn investors flooding the market will have that effect and maybe it's for the best in general. But it's going to hurt most everyone involved whether veteran or beginner.

Now this is just my view/opinion and also the way I feel about going to Arizona to buy or sale a Car.

Not sure anyone called the 450k Blk/Blk 70 IV auction reasonable. I was highest predicter at around 200k. It may have been real - but probably not. It was very peculiar to say just the least. Sources say it was - and some sources say not. Both sides say they have it on good authority. I'd call it bogus until absolutely proven otherwise.

An IV will never be of Hemi/LS6/CJet status to ALL the masses. But with guys like Bruno kicking their a$$es, they will continue to demand and acquire more and more respect.

[70ram4]

I've also heard good things about Russo-steele

[70ra455]

Say what you want Baron but we've got 100's of posts (no exageration) on this board that claimed BJ was raising prices and no one should sell on ebay (because the prices were recently LOW LOW LOW) until after BJ and then the prices would be higher. Then it was the wrong time and the wrong night for the sales on Thursday and Friday. NOW we've got a MINT 4spd RA4 Judge that you guys only two weeks ago were hawking as the new Hemi's.

Now the price comes in at a RIDICULOUSLY LOW $117,000 for a # matching MINT CONDITION FRAME OFF RESTORED RA4 Judge.

NOW we're saying that BJ doesn't set the pace for Pontiacs? Ugh ... you're just fooling yourself.

Wanna bet that the next Russo Steele isn't much better if better at all?