GTO Failure from the Goat's mouth...

[HUMBLER]

I love the fact that Bob is not a terribly good speaker, most car guys aren't!

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../70212001/1151

[pont3]

He may be a failure as a speaker but the GTO is definately not a failure. Sales may not have been great but the car isn't the reason. At least in my opinion. Every time I think about what the car should have been, I think about what my options were prior to it. Then I realize my prayers have indeed, been answered. Thank you Mr Lutz.

[87LC2]

Originally Posted by pont3

He may be a failure as a speaker but the GTO is definately not a failure. Sales may not have been great but the car isn't the reason. At least in my opinion. Every time I think about what the car should have been, I think about what my options were prior to it. Then I realize my prayers have indeed, been answered. Thank you Mr Lutz.

+1
Thanks Bob, great car.
If anybody knows GM, the last model year of a car GEN is the best. They have it perfected then they cancel it
The new GTO is a keeper.

[Karch]

I just heard what he had to say, and with regards to the mistakes with the GTO, I think he was quite accurate.

The one point he left out was that the '04 model should have never come out with single side exit exhaust and a flat hood, IMO. If you want a sleeper, name it a Lemans or something else. When was GTO ever a sleeper?

I do see a lot of them here in SoCal. There were close to a dozen at the POCI drags. I see them daily on the road, and some with Prochargers.

He was right about price points...they really missed it on that one. They could have grabbed quite a few Mustang buyers if they had it in the mid 20's, but what do I know...I don't have access to their cost and balance sheets.

Also, most of the local dealers are real douchebags when it came to looking at them and even a test drive. That is until they weren't selling. They were even marking them up! I went in Dec '04 and could have bought one, by then, for $23.9K, but I said forget it...it's a good price, but the LS2 and dual exhaust, nicer hood, cars are on the way...I'm not giving away 50 horsepower that easy

Oh...there are some Z06's available at MSRP, if anyone is interested.

[HUMBLER]

He certainly didn't argue it as a failure though, which kind of surprised me. I guess I don't like the term but...

[red70goat]

He still won't admit to trying to gouge the consumer by bastardizing a legendary name on a cheaply made generic car..... " We won't go into why it was overpriced"....C.mon Bob, the gig is up!

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by red70goat

He still won't admit to trying to gouge the consumer by bastardizing a legendary name on a cheaply made generic car..... " We won't go into why it was overpriced"....C.mon Bob, the gig is up!

So he admitted they priced it too high. What's the problem? If it wasn't for him there would be no Solstice, no HHR, no GTO, no Sky, no Aura, etc.

[pont3]

Originally Posted by red70goat

He still won't admit to trying to gouge the consumer by bastardizing a legendary name on a cheaply made generic car..... " We won't go into why it was overpriced"....C.mon Bob, the gig is up!

You know, Red, if the GTO had a MSRP similar to that of the SRT8 Chryslers, or the GT500, or a '94 Supra, or a '93 Twin Turbo 300Z, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But for 33k and 400 horses, and, after over two years of ownership of this "cheaply made" GTO, I can say, unequivocably, you are dead wrong. Yes, there are areas where cost cutting shows, but overall, this is an extremely well built car. But you'll never know for yourself. This car does what a GTO has always done. Puts a smile on the driver's face and makes most other cars small objects in the rearview mirror.

[87LC2]

Originally Posted by red70goat

He still won't admit to trying to gouge the consumer by bastardizing a legendary name on a cheaply made generic car..... " We won't go into why it was overpriced"....C.mon Bob, the gig is up!

Basically he said the car should have been pushed harder on the west-coast where the Ricer-lovers could install LED curb feelers and 9" diameter exhaust tips. The car failed for all the reasons he stated.

Not a bad car....just named wrong, ugly and overpriced.

This site is like a Klan meeting for '04~'06 GTO's

My buddy has a 2005 Mustang and he likes my '06 goat more than the closed minded ones on this site. The more I visit here the more I want to flip off old Pontiacs I see on the road...j/k
If you don't like the car hit the bricks, this forum is for 2004 to 2006 chat, not uninformed hate mongering.

[dancolkate]

Originally Posted by 87LC2

This site is like a Klan meeting for '04~'06 GTO's

My buddy has a 2005 Mustang and he likes my '06 goat more than the closed minded ones on this site. The more I visit here the more I want to flip off old Pontiacs I see on the road...j/k
If you don't like the car hit the bricks, this forum is for 2004 to 2006 chat, not uninformed hate mongering.

I was responding to a video link that was posted. Even after the Big Poncho Chief admits the car was a failure, you are still defending it...unreal.

This is an open forum to discuss the 04-06 GTO.....good or bad....so GFY. Just because you are happy driving around in a Holden with a Chevy motor, that looks just like a Honda Accord, doesn't mean jack.

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by dancolkate

I was responding to a video link that was posted. Even after the Big Poncho Chief admits the car was a failure, you are still defending it...unreal.

This is an open forum to discuss the 04-06 GTO.....good or bad....so GFY. Just because you are happy driving around in a Holden with a Chevy motor, that looks just like a Honda Accord, doesn't mean jack.

Dan, ever drive a new GTO? If not I suggest you do. Take one for a drive and then let us know what you think.

[HUMBLER]

There is only one person "bastardizing" here...

[Karch]

Personally, I rather Lutz make some mistakes and learn from them than not be at GM.

He is a car guy, he likes performance, he loves cars. He is not a CPA type numbers cruncher that tend to make money for the shareholders, piss off the employees, and put out dull and faulty product ("so what if it fails, as long as it's outside the warranty period").

[Zig'sbird]

Originally Posted by Karch

Personally, I rather Lutz make some mistakes and learn from them than not be at GM.

I have to agree here. Since he admitted the price problem, hopefully he can then address the dealership's markups.

[dancolkate]

Basically he said the car should have been pushed harder on the west-coast where the Ricer-lovers could install LED curb feelers and 9" diameter exhaust tips. The car failed for all the reasons he stated.

Not a bad car....just named wrong, ugly and overpriced.

If nothing else, I admire his honesty.

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by dancolkate

Basically he said the car should have been pushed harder on the west-coast where the Ricer-lovers could install LED curb feelers and 9" diameter exhaust tips. The car failed for all the reasons he stated.

Not a bad car....just named wrong, ugly and overpriced.

If nothing else, I admire his honesty.

Priced wrong? Probably.

Ugly? Totally subjetive

Named Wrong? no way. It was better than ANY GTO produced before it and it was on part performance wise with the way the Corvette has emerged.

[pont3]

Thing is, who could possibly predict the perfect resurgent car after a 30 year hiatus and get EVERYTHING acceptable to EVERYONE? At least Lutz had the Gutz to try and he did get quite a few details spot on. A few loons hold out for a Poncho V8 and some complain about styling. The rest of us have been enjoying the first mid-sized rwd V8 coupe from GM since the eighties. And despite the thinking on this board, the car is GAINING popularity.

[TinInjun]

Here is how bad ass the GTO is. Filmed this during the '05 POCI nats. Real barn burners for sure. BTW this is a '04 vs '05.
http://members.aol.com/jetmech15/gto/04gtovs05gto.wmv

[jeffhhs76]

Well Mr. Monaro ...er GTO and Dan, you both have good points. Do you want to know why this argument will never reach a desired end for either of you? Repeat after me..Global Economy...There are very few American made GM cars anymore but now there are Toyotas built in the good old USA. So what are you going to do? Argue where the parts to build the cars are made? For what its worth, here's my take. Pontiac made a HUGE error in judgement bringing back the GTO name to put on a car that bears no resemblence in any way other than in the name itself to its predecessor. The Pontiac version of the Monaro however is a wickedly fast car and deserved to stand on its own with a unique Pontiac name. If Pontiac had done this they probably would have sold 20K each year, even with the bland rental car look it has. But they attempted to capitalize on the name of an automotive legend and it blew up in their face just as most people suspected it would. There are true blue 04-06 GTO die hards out there like Mr GTO who swear by the car. Is it a GTO? Well, it says GTO on the name plate so I guess so. As Dan says, it is actually a Holden Monaro assemebled in the states with a Chevy Engine because they are the only GM engines available today. Definitley NOT pure Pontiac but it is as pure a Pontiac as you'll get today. You guys can argue forever and you will both continue to be right. The best we can do is let it go and pray that GM in general and Pontiac in particular don't screw up like this again. Mr GTO, please stop comparing your GTO with the GTO's of the sixties and seventies. With the technology we have today the damn car better be faster than the 60's cars! So speed wise, I concede..you win, but when it comes intimidating looks, aura, and Neck snapping torque...AKA the complete package.... you're in a different solar system. Different strokes fellas, different strokes............Rock on!

[pont3]

This whole idea about current cars bearing resemblance to their forebears is getting quite old. I mean, exactly which car, by any US maker other than the Mustang, bears any resemblance at all to its 50s, 60s, or 70s counterpart? The other question I have is, would the 60s Goats have acheived their sales numbers if the US had been inundated with the various imports that are currently offered in their class? A lot has changed in our world and our country since the 60s heyday. Much of that change is solely due to the exaggeration of our freedom of choice. Did you know Mustang sales have had two consecutive months of 19% declines? Wanna bet what happened to 300, Magnum, Charger sales?

I know many feel the name GTO hurt this car's sales. But consider the expense of bringing the car over under an unheard of, unfamiliar name. The advertising alone would have made it impossible to obtain this car at a 30k price point. Lutz knew this and made a decision, a right one in my opinion, to reinvigorate performance at Pontiac. THIS WAS ONLY A STARTING POINT.

The most irritating thing is, most of the whiners crying "it's no GTO" have never even owned a GTO of any year. Fact is, this car does what it's always done, just does it a whole lot better. It is still the car to beat. And that subjective category of styling will always be open to debate.