[66rag]

Which would have the highest resale value: 64 Catalina 2+2, 389, 4 bbl, 4-speed or 64 Grand Prix 389, 4 bbl, 4-speed? I realize that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but given the same high level of restoration, would one have more value than the other?

[BigAquaBonney]

The Grand Prix:

Collector Car Market Review Value Report
1964 PONTIAC CATALINA 2+2 421-320hp (8cyl-4V) AT
#5 #4 #3 #2 #1
2dr Conv 1800 3850 7050 10175 13500
2dr Hdtp 925 2300 4375 6050 7925

Add:
421-350hp (V8-3x2V) 15%
421-370hp (V8-3x2V) 20%
4spd manual trans 7%
Air conditioning 10%
Power windows 3%
8-lug wheels 5%
Deduct:
3spd manual transmission -10%
Manual steering -3%

Collector Car Market Review Value Report
1964 PONTIAC GRAND PRIX 389-303hp (8cyl-4V) AT
#5 #4 #3 #2 #1
2dr Hdtp 1375 4025 8275 13575 20075

Add:
389-330hp (V8-3x2V) 20%
421-320hp (8cyl-4V) 15%
421-350hp (V8-3x2V) 30%
421-370hp (V8-3x2V) 40%
4spd manual trans 7%
Air conditioning 10%
Power windows 3%
8-lug wheels 5%
Deduct:
3spd manual transmission -10%
Manual steering -3%

[Jerry H.]

Originally Posted by BigAquaBonney

The Grand Prix:

Collector Car Market Review Value Report
1964 PONTIAC CATALINA 2+2 421-320hp (8cyl-4V) AT
#5 #4 #3 #2 #1
2dr Conv 1800 3850 7050 10175 13500
2dr Hdtp 925 2300 4375 6050 7925

Add:
421-350hp (V8-3x2V) 15%
421-370hp (V8-3x2V) 20%
4spd manual trans 7%
Air conditioning 10%
Power windows 3%
8-lug wheels 5%
Deduct:
3spd manual transmission -10%
Manual steering -3%

Collector Car Market Review Value Report
1964 PONTIAC GRAND PRIX 389-303hp (8cyl-4V) AT
#5 #4 #3 #2 #1
2dr Hdtp 1375 4025 8275 13575 20075

Add:
389-330hp (V8-3x2V) 20%
421-320hp (8cyl-4V) 15%
421-350hp (V8-3x2V) 30%
421-370hp (V8-3x2V) 40%
4spd manual trans 7%
Air conditioning 10%
Power windows 3%
8-lug wheels 5%
Deduct:
3spd manual transmission -10%
Manual steering -3%

I would agree that the GP would be worth maybe a little more than the 2+2, both with the base 389, both with 4 speed and both with the same quality of restoration. That being said, look at the above table. Those 'book' values are useless. Not just the ones above listed, but most all 'book'values. For example, on the one above they don't even show the 2+2 with the base 389 engine. They only show it with a 421. In 64 the 2+2's came with a 389 standard, unlike 65 & 66 where it was a 421. Looks like whomever put these values together didn't know that fact. You can see how that will skew the values tremendously.

Personally I don't think in the real world the values in those two cars would be that much different. JMHO.

[Dick Boneske]

You wouldn't know until you tried to sell one. Grand Prix's will generally be worth more than Catalinas. If you had a zero miles '62 Catalina hardtop and a zero miles '62 Grand Prix with factory Super Duty options, which do you think would fetch more money? Yes, there will be the occasional buyer that would prefer a Catalina, but Grand Prixs--whether '62, '63, '64, or whatever, will average better selling prices.

I think that was your original question.

[gregneun]

The Bonnevilles were always considered the top of the line Pontiac, and then there was the Sport Luxury Grand Prix.

The Catalina was a budget entry, but the 2+2 package put it into the performance group.

The performance guys found the Cat lighter and they could use the savings for some performance upgrades.

The 2+2 probably had a lower production run. They share the same wheelbase and I like both of the rooflines

I have a 64 Gp, and I like the Cats too. I like the tri-color interior that the Cat Ventura and 2+2 had. The Gp usually had solid color panels, seats and carpets.

Equaly equipped, I would think that they would have similar values. Depending on the upgrades the 2+2 may fetch more due to the production numbers and lower weight game.

The 62 Gp is just plain cool. Add any SD option, I'm impressed.

The 1960 Pontiacs have the double barrelled tailights, and bubble tops. It's harder to find better body lines than these models.

[mike nixon]

the g/p will win out in resale every time.

mike

[gregneun]

I hope it drums up some interesting posts in the big car forum.

I like the tri-color interior. Were they an option in 1964, for the Cat and Bonnie?

Was there a tri-colored seat/door panel option for the 64 Gp?

Greg

[stevep]

Originally Posted by gregneun

I hope it drums up some interesting posts in the big car forum.

I like the tri-color interior. Were they an option in 1964, for the Cat and Bonnie?

Was there a tri-colored seat/door panel option for the 64 Gp?

Greg

The 64 Cat had a one color interior with cloth and vinal. The 64 Cat conv w/bucket seats had a tri-tone. 64 Ventura/2+2/Bonneville had mono-tone or tri-tone, depending on what the color was. Black was black, white was white, but the reds, blues, greens and browns were tri-tone, from what I can piece together.
Let me know if this is proven correct or not.

Pontiac actually always considered the GP a step over the Bonneville.

I have never seen a tri-tone seat/door panel in a 64 GP.

There were 7998 64 2+2's built and a whole lot more GP's.

[PITTSBURGH 64]

I always thought the 64 Grand Prix was the most expensive car Pontiac ever made in the sixties.
When my dad saw the original sticker from a 64 421 Grand Prix I once owned he said "you could of bought a nice house for that kind of money back then".
I'll don't understand why Pontiac didn't use the 4 speed hydro in 64 G.P though. After owning that 64 421 GP and then driving my first 64 Bonneville I couldn't get over the fantastic difference the 4 speed hydro made!
That 64 389 Bonneville would of blown my old 64 421 GP into the weeds.................

I agree it depends on the buyer. Trying to figure out what these car's will sell for is like trying to figure out todays Lucky 4 drawing.
I bought my car for 9 grand over five years ago, he originally had it for sale for 11 g's. Today I see rebuilds selling for close to that.

[BVR421]

Originally Posted by PITTSBURGH 64

I'll don't understand why Pontiac didn't use the 4 speed hydro in 64 G.P though.

because the GP uses a Cat body and a 4sp wont fit under the narrow roto hump. I agree, GPs got shortchanged on the trAns deal back then.

[stevep]

Jeff, I think it was a short body-long body thing for the trans. Pontiac MAY have thought that the Slim-Jim was more of a performance trans.
One thing that I can say about the Slim-Jim was that it looked great on paper.

[Engine-Ear]

Personally, I think PMD got strong-armed by Olds (or bought off) to use the sliP-jim in the short wheel base cars.

But to your original question, I think the 2+2 is going to be more valuable in the future. WHY? '64 is a first-year for the 2+2. With a 4-gear it probably has buckets and a console and the Ventura-like (tri-tone) interior (not cloth + vynil like base Cats) Plus, there were only a few thousand '64 2+2s built.

I find it very interesting that PMD would even offer the 2+2 in the first place, considering what a wide range of body and trim styles you already had, plus GP was a big seller in '63 and now as a potential buyer you are looking at another Cat-wheel-base trim to choose from.

man, 1964 was a good year.

[TININDN]

The 1964 2+2 was a late intro as was the first year 1964 GTO. I think the 2+2 was meant to come standard with the 421, but, because this was the first year for the GTO, the 2+2 may have got second billing and had to wait 'till '65 for the 421 as standard equipment. Most '64 2+2's I have come across have been 2 bbl. autos.

I know when I ordered my '64 Ventura in the summer of '63, neither the GTO or 2+2 was officially public. Wangers could probably answer that one.

The fact remains however, the '64 389 tri-power car was as quick, or quicker than any '63 or '64 421 HO car. And, quicker than any of it's 389 predecessors. My '64 Ventura show room bone stock (3.42's) except for Hedman headers and 7" Casler cheaters would run 14.0's all day long on a crap track surface. A friend of mine who raced at the same track with a '64 Bonneville rag with 389 3X2 (3.42's) could run 14.5's all day long, yet another friend with a 2 bbl. HC 389 Cat with a Jim could also run 14.5's all day long but with 4.10 gears. Jim's would et with kick ass rear gears - it overcame the engine falling face flat with those big ratio drops between shifts.

Merry Christmas to all!

Dave B.

[64catdroptop]

I'm still going back to the "book" value. If any one out there has a '64 Cat convertible in #1 condition for 13,5.... give me a call, I'll gladly pay $13.5K for that car.

I do agree that the GP will fetch more than a Cat, but I do love the Ventura trim in the '64's

Steve, you are correct on your trim assessment on the tri-colors. The door panels on the Ventura's were two colors and the seats had three.

The Bonneville was the top of the line for Pontiac in '64, then the Star Chief, GP and last, but not least, Catalina (full size line). The GP was kind of a separate catagory though as it was more of a "sporty" model.

-r-

[TININDN]

Originally Posted by 64catdroptop

I'm still going back to the "book" value. If any one out there has a '64 Cat convertible in #1 condition for 13,5.... give me a call, I'll gladly pay $13.5K for that car.

-r-

And, I'll take the ones you don't want for that price -

Dave B.

[stevep]

I have heard of 64 GP's with a factory Dual Coupling, but I have not seen it myself.
Has anyone actually seen one??

The GP always had a higher model # than a Bonneville. From 62-64, a Bonneville was model 28 and a GP was 29. From 65 to at least 68, Bonneville was 62 and GP was 66, if that actually means something.