[llwta76]

How difficult would it be to get a '79 , 301 non turbo T/A (stock curb weight of 3700#) into the 13s? Would cam,headers. exhaust,manifold,carb and gears do it? Larry

[Overkillphil]

With that weight and no Turbo, you couldn't get it into the 13's if you dropped it out of an airplane.

They are tough to get into the 13's WITH the turbos, and of course not become "modular" engines while doing it.

[70lemansport]

This is a REALLY old post but hopfully the guys will add the combo.
:..quote..

Here's the specs as I have written down:
69 350 +30
216/218 454/480 Crane 272-2?
Stock rebuilt #47 heads
Edelbrock performer
Holley 600cfm
3 tube headers
2400 stall
stock th350
3.55 posi
Car weighed 3500# and went 13.82@98
I will call Jaqtec and have him double check on what I listed above.

Shotgun has my old combo right. My car was fine on pump gas...I did run premium. You don't need no stinkin' 400 to run 13's!!! Shotgun was almost in the 13's with his 301 powered car! It's all in the whole combination! I'd recommend not dumping a ton of $ in the heads...the 350 can only pump so much air anyway. Put a cam similar to what I had...a 600-700 CFM carb, and get some 3.55, or 3.73 gears...performer intake...and have fun!!!

[JACK_BURTON55]

Originally Posted by 70lemansport

This is a REALLY old post but hopfully the guys will add the combo.
:..quote..

Here's the specs as I have written down:
69 350 +30
216/218 454/480 Crane 272-2?
Stock rebuilt #47 heads
Edelbrock performer
Holley 600cfm
3 tube headers
2400 stall
stock th350
3.55 posi
Car weighed 3500# and went 13.82@98
I will call Jaqtec and have him double check on what I listed above.

Shotgun has my old combo right. My car was fine on pump gas...I did run premium. You don't need no stinkin' 400 to run 13's!!! Shotgun was almost in the 13's with his 301 powered car! It's all in the whole combination! I'd recommend not dumping a ton of $ in the heads...the 350 can only pump so much air anyway. Put a cam similar to what I had...a 600-700 CFM carb, and get some 3.55, or 3.73 gears...performer intake...and have fun!!!

may want to reread the post. he has a 301, not a 350

[67 Lamnas]

Originally Posted by llwta76

How difficult would it be to get a '79 , 301 non turbo T/A (stock curb weight of 3700#) into the 13s? Would cam,headers. exhaust,manifold,carb and gears do it? Larry

WHY???

[Don 79 TA]

guess the adivce everyone is giving is to save the $$ and get the 350-455 motor's

if it were common place to get a 301 into the 13's or better.... i'd think you'd see more of them...

[Brian Baker]

Shotgun installed a 301 into a T-1000 chassis...much lighter than a 79 Firebird...hence the reason it ran so well for what it was. His goal was 13's at 100 MPH...he came close but didn't make it.

[firebird400]

So what are you guys saying ?

Is it not possible to hop-up the 301 ?

Higher boost and more fuel must be possible with minimum of $$$$$

Is it just that week that it won´t take it or......

[Jeff Walker]

Originally Posted by firebird400

So what are you guys saying ?

Is it not possible to hop-up the 301 ?

Higher boost and more fuel must be possible with minimum of $$$$$

Is it just that week that it won´t take it or......

Possible..I suppose, since anything is possible with enough determination and money. The thing with the 301 is that it is a very weak platform to start out with. They were notorious for breaking crankshafts as the 301 crank is about half the weight of a 350-400 crank. Aslo the intake runners of the head are basically two pair of runners instead of one for each cylinder which obviously doesn't do much for performance. HTH

[DAVE RIBEIRO]

There are at least a couple of stockers 80-81 firebird's (301 turbo's) running in the mid 12's at 105 mph. They hold a couple of records to boot.. I think there's a couple of 301 carbed cars also..I will do some checking with the guys in AZ. who own the turbo's.. Remember these are race cars only, not street/strip.. But they are NHRA/IHRA legal as they were in 79-81..It's all about the Total combo, not just one piece... Don't knock the 350 ci, it can run 11.80's @ 111 mph at 3700 lbs in stock... Dave...1033/stock(RV-455)

* I got beleive that a 301 ci could run mid to high 13's ....

[Will]

I'm sure you could put a 301 turbo into the 13s with the right combo, but I'm willing to bet money it can't be done with an NA version in a full weight car. Well, at least it can't be done AND have it live for more than a few passes.

[firebird400]

3700 lbs in the 13´s

thats about 260-270 whp right

Should be easy on a low $ Turbo 5 liter

[Brian Baker]

Sigh...why do people insist on doing something when all the advice they get tells them otherwise? The 12 second ride Dave is talking about is a NHRA Stock class combination and it is nowhere near being streetable with loose convertor and tall gears and a wastegate that's pinned shut. Shotgun's combination was slightly modified but still near "stock" but it was installed in a lightweight T-1000 chassis that was gutted.

Weak crank
Weak block
Weak flowing cylinder heads due to siamesed intake runners
No aftermarket parts support

My father had a phrase for such an effort...he called it "shovelling crap against the tide".

[Geoff]

Yes, a 301, NA, running 13s!! Easy!
301 in the trunk for traction aid on a 455 powered car!

[pontiac1981]

WHY IS EVERYONE SO CLOSED MINED WHEN COMES TO THE 301? I'M WILLING TO GUESS THAT THEIR OPINION IS ONLY BASED ON BAD HEAR SAY. I HAD A 79 TA AND I HAD A UNKNOWN MECHANIC IN NORTH RIDGEVILLE OHIO WORK HIS MAGIC ON MY TA BACK IN THE MID 80'S AND HE PUT THIS LITTLE 301 NON TURBO INTO THE MID TO UPPER 13'S FOR JUST UNDER $2500.00 AND THE CAR RAN GREAT UP TO THE TIME I SOLD IT WITH OVER 130,000 MILES ON IT AND I NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE CRANK OR ANYTHING ELSE. THE CHANGES WERE SIMPLE, HOTTER CAM, REJETTED THE SECONDARYS, 3:73 GEARS, B&M STAGE 2 SHIFT KIT, TRUE DUAL FLOWMASTER EXHAUST, AND THERE WAS 2 OR 3 OTHER SMALL THINGS HE DONE THAT I CAN'T REMEMBER OFF HAND. I CURRENTLY HAVE A 81 TA WITH A 301 NON TURBO THAT DISCONNECTED THE COMPUTER BY REPLACING THE CARB, METRIC TRANS WITH A TH350 WITH A STAGE 2 SHIFT KIT, DISTRIBUTOR AND I PUT A TRUE DUAL EXHAUST ON IT, I'VE OWNED THIS CAR FOR 17 YEARS AND I DO NOT BABY IT AND I'VE NEVER BEEN INSIDE THE ENGINE AND NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEMS. IT IS VERY CAPABLE OF OUT RUNNING GT RUSTANGS AND 350 CAMAROS.

[Jeff Walker]

Originally Posted by pontiac1981

WHY IS EVERYONE SO CLOSED MINED WHEN COMES TO THE 301? I'M WILLING TO GUESS THAT THEIR OPINION IS ONLY BASED ON BAD HEAR SAY. I HAD A 79 TA AND I HAD A UNKNOWN MECHANIC IN NORTH RIDGEVILLE OHIO WORK HIS MAGIC ON MY TA BACK IN THE MID 80'S AND HE PUT THIS LITTLE 301 NON TURBO INTO THE MID TO UPPER 13'S FOR JUST UNDER $2500.00 AND THE CAR RAN GREAT UP TO THE TIME I SOLD IT WITH OVER 130,000 MILES ON IT AND I NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE CRANK OR ANYTHING ELSE. THE CHANGES WERE SIMPLE, HOTTER CAM, REJETTED THE SECONDARYS, 3:73 GEARS, B&M STAGE 2 SHIFT KIT, TRUE DUAL FLOWMASTER EXHAUST, AND THERE WAS 2 OR 3 OTHER SMALL THINGS HE DONE THAT I CAN'T REMEMBER OFF HAND. I CURRENTLY HAVE A 81 TA WITH A 301 NON TURBO THAT DISCONNECTED THE COMPUTER BY REPLACING THE CARB, METRIC TRANS WITH A TH350 WITH A STAGE 2 SHIFT KIT, DISTRIBUTOR AND I PUT A TRUE DUAL EXHAUST ON IT, I'VE OWNED THIS CAR FOR 17 YEARS AND I DO NOT BABY IT AND I'VE NEVER BEEN INSIDE THE ENGINE AND NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEMS. IT IS VERY CAPABLE OF OUT RUNNING GT RUSTANGS AND 350 CAMAROS.

Well consider yourself one of the lucky ones then...

Back in the 80's I used to work at my dads salvage yard and repair shop. I can recall doing 3-4 engine swaps in 301 powered cars where we took out the 301 and put in either a 350 or 400 Pontiac.

And alot of the times when I took took the old engine apart guess what I seen wrong...a broken crank! And most of these were in cars that weren't ran or used that hard. So not everybodys opinion on the 301 is heresay.

Of course then there's the example of a 79 Bonneville with a 301 that ran over 200K with only a timing chain replacement.....

JMHO

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by pontiac1981

I HAD A 79 TA AND I HAD A UNKNOWN MECHANIC IN NORTH RIDGEVILLE OHIO WORK HIS MAGIC ON MY TA BACK IN THE MID 80'S AND HE PUT THIS LITTLE 301 NON TURBO INTO THE MID TO UPPER 13'S FOR JUST UNDER $2500.00 AND THE CAR RAN GREAT UP TO THE TIME I SOLD IT WITH OVER 130,000 MILES ON IT AND I NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE CRANK OR ANYTHING ELSE.

Got a timeslip? Got anything more than "hotter cam?" No? Didn't think so. Re-jetting the secondaries, disconnecting the ESC, and putting true dual exhaust on a 1980-1981 Trans Am does not a 13 second car make.

If it was doable by the average shadetree mechanic or engine builder for cheap with little to no serious investment in parts or engineering, it would have been done by now. And "I had one 20 years ago that ran FAST" does not count. Neil's 301T race car doesn't count either as that is one heck of a custom setup that is specifically tuned for running the quarter mile.

Seriously. Prove me wrong. Go build a 301NA motor and get it into the 13's (13.999 is perfectly acceptable). Prove everyone wrong. I am not saying it can't be done, I am saying it is going to involve considerably more work than just a few minor mods like a carb re-jet, intake and exhaust swap. Is the juice worth the squeeze?

[pontiac1981]

BEN M. REREAD WHAT I HAD WROTE,,, I WAS TALKING ABOUT A 79 TA THAT I HAD MANY YEARS AGO, THE 81 TA THAT I CURRANTLY OWN I'VE NEVER RAN IT AT THE TRACK SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE 1/4 MILE TIME WOULD BE, I DO KNOW IT IS A LOT FASTER THAN IT WAS BEFORE. NOPE! I NO LONGER HAVE THE TIME SLIPS FOR THE 79 GIVING THE FACT THAT IT HAS BEEN OVER 20 YEARS AGO AND THE MECHANIC WAS A RESPECTABLE SHOP OWNER THAT DID A FARE AMOUNT OF THE WORK ON MY 79 TA AT NO CHARGE AS IT HAD BECOME A PERSONAL CHALLENGE FOR HIM TO MAKE MY CAR AS FAST AS HE COULD GET IT, HE WAS AN OLDER GENTELMAN THAT I RESPECTED AND HE PASSED AWAY ABOUT 15 YEARS AGO. I DON'T REMEMBER EVERYTHING THAT HE HAD DONE BUT HE DID PUT TOGETHER A 301 TA FOR ME THAT DID RUN IN THE MID TO UPPER 13'S, SO IF IT WASN'T TRUE I WOULDN'T HAVE SAID IT DID BUT YOU CAN BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by pontiac1981

I DON'T REMEMBER EVERYTHING THAT HE HAD DONE BUT HE DID PUT TOGETHER A 301 TA FOR ME THAT DID RUN IN THE MID TO UPPER 13'S, SO IF IT WASN'T TRUE I WOULDN'T HAVE SAID IT DID BUT YOU CAN BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT.

Sure. And pigs can fly. I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true, right? You may not know me from Adam and you can believe whatever you want, but I don't lie! I posted it on the internets!

I find it hard to believe a 301 ran in the mid to upper 13's with just a cam and exhaust change-out. If more was done like swapping heads or a new crank, I'd believe it. In this day of widely dispersed information available to all, if it was something that could be regularly done ALL of the Pontiac websites would be talking about it.

[llwta76]

301 in the 13's? Of coarse I was looking for forum input... and the opinion is no. I've known Pontiac81 for over 10 yrs. I never had the fortune of seeing his 13 sec. '79 in action . But I have seen still clips of it at Norwalk. Wayne has been a Pontiac fan nearly as long as I so I do believe he knows a 301 from a 455. He is a very good personal friend of mine so if he says it was accomplished then I believe him. Hi Performance Pontiac(Thunder Am mag.)had an article way back in the 80s on the 301 so I do know that it does not have Hi Po internals. As for the rest ... you guys know more of the 301 workings than I. I do know ,however , that Waynes' current 81/301 has been beaten' on ever since I've known him. I am ,in truth, surprised that it has taken such a beating all these years. I don't know what it is capable of running @the strip but it will chirp the tires pretty hard on the 1st to 2nd upshift @ full throttle. It is, in my view, pretty peppy for the little he has done to it(this it a 3.08 geared T/A). If I had to" guess- ta- mate "its perf. I'd say very low 15s @ least. Larry