[Brian Baker]

Got popped today with Lidar (laser) for speeding. What is the maximum recommended distance you are trained on for shooting someone with Lidar to maintain accuracy?

[David Jones]

"Lidar range goes as the fourth root of target crossection. This is a very weak function, and so the range for your state probably falls between these extremes of measurment range to the best and worst liscense plates measured by Tom Bell:

* Georgia license plate, by itself = 2577 ft.
* Colorado license plate, by itself = 1339 ft.
* With no plate- detection range of a Mazda RX7 with headlights retracted is around 800 ft.
* No plate, and the lights covered - detection range < 500 ft.

The Uniden detector ad (Aug 95 Road&Track p31) claims that:

* Uniden detector is good to about 8000 feet.
* Lidar guns are effective to about 2000 feet.
* Average operating range of police lidar is about 800 feet.

Craig Peterson has written alot on police radar and lidar, and he makes the argument in AUTOtronics, March 95 that typical radar ambushes are 600-800 feet because the police must identify the car and make a visual estimate of speed as well. This argument may not apply to lidar with its narrower beam, since the beam itself identifies the car."

[Brian Baker]

I was popped in excess of 1600'...the county cop that issued the citation wrote it on the ticket and even explained it to me. Weather conditions were sunny, in the 60's, with narry a cloud in the sky. Road conditions were a two lane divided highway, with moderate traffic. I saw the patrol cruiser as soon as I crested the hill, which by the way is between 1600-2000' from where the cruiser was parked, but I didn't think the cruiser could "see" me given the close proximity I was to cars in front of me (ie - I didn't think the officer would have a good enough angle to shoot me from the other cars in front of me).

[69goatboy]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

I was popped in excess of 1600'...the county cop that issued the citation wrote it on the ticket and even explained it to me. Weather conditions were sunny, in the 60's, with narry a cloud in the sky. Road conditions were a two lane divided highway, with moderate traffic. I saw the patrol cruiser as soon as I crested the hill, which by the way is between 1600-2000' from where the cruiser was parked, but I didn't think the cruiser could "see" me given the close proximity I was to cars in front of me (ie - I didn't think the officer would have a good enough angle to shoot me from the other cars in front of me).

Given the situation as you've laid out in moderate traffic, how does the LEO know it was you? Most importantly, (as the burden of proof is on the accuser) how can he PROVE it was you and not someone else?

[Brian Baker]

When she approached my vehicle, after introducing herself she said I was being recorded. She asked for license and registration, which I gave without issue (I dan't said anything at this point). I then asked what I was being pulled over for, to which she replied a traffic violation, and what she said next I thought was a bit strange...she said (and I'm paraphrasing) once she gathers the evidence she'll let me know upon her return to my vehicle. My immediate response was may I ask what that evidence is, because surely you must already know before you pulled me over. She then finally told me I was clocked doing 79 (in a 55) and when I asked what device she used she told me Lidar. I'm thinking I'll ask the court for a copy of that recording before I go in to fight this.

[David Holmberg]

By all rights you should win in court. However, it will be her word against yours, unless you can subpoena her in-car video tape. Normally they only keep them for so long before recording over them again, so you may need to check into that.

IF her tape shows other vehicles in front of you, your case might be made. If the tape isn't available, it's up to the Judge to determine if there is a game being played.

[goquick]

speeding tickets are just additional income to cities, counties and States. You can prove you are right, but they will still charge you their court fee. See the game? It isn't about wrong or right, but cleaning out your wallet and getting a record on you. Good luck

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by David Holmberg

By all rights you should win in court. However, it will be her word against yours, unless you can subpoena her in-car video tape. Normally they only keep them for so long before recording over them again, so you may need to check into that.

IF her tape shows other vehicles in front of you, your case might be made. If the tape isn't available, it's up to the Judge to determine if there is a game being played.

Don't think she has a video tape shooting me with laser, as her cruiser was parked at a 90 degree angle to oncoming traffic so she could aim the gun out the driver side door window.

[Kyflier]

Brian, Mike Valentine is one our Porsche customers. He developed the technology for the Escort radar detector, and several other since. He might be a good one to ask questions of as well.

[David Jones]

So you're saying you weren't speeding? Or that all of the vehicles in your group were legal, since you were close to others? Maybe you HAD BEEN going 105, but tucked in behind the delivery truck to hide?

[Mike S]

Everybody speeds but only a few get caught. I asked a cop once why he pulled me over when everyone else was speeding. He asked me if I fish and I replyed yes. He then asked "do
you catch all your fish at once?" I said if I had a net I could. I got lucky and he let me go with a seatbelt ticket.

So where you speeding?

[Brian Baker]

I plead the 5th on what the reading was on my speedometer.

[Sirrotica]

Brian, as Byron has already said it's about money. When I go to a hearing I always ask the judge to charge me for an equipment violation for the same amount. So far it's always worked and I escape the points and insurance increases down the road. That proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's all about revenue and not safety.

If you buck the system and have nothing but your word against the officer it has been my experience that your going to be found guilty no matter how good of an argument you have. I have fought tickets and won, but only about 30% of the time have I beaten them, good luck.

[Old Bird]

What kinda car were you driving? A Pontiac muscle car or old junker. The cops will take a nice car out of a group of speeding cars every time. Must be like fishing, they want the really nice fast shinny one, not the rusty one.

[MikeNoun]

Interesting, this just popped up today, so just a warning to make sure your speedo is accurate...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...?se=yahoorefer

[Brian Baker]

I was driving my 99 GMC truck...a rather mundane looking vehicle from 2000' away.

[Overkillphil]

Brian, I don't know how MD is, but here in PA we will plead not guilty and get our day at the local (dog and pony show) "District Justice" office.

Usually, the officer (if he shows up) will approach the accused in the lobby and ask why he/she is disputing the ticket. Depending upon how the accused interacts with the LEO, usually the LEO will offer to swap to a lesser "non moving" violation which results in no points on ones license (no insurance increase) and typically a lesser fine. When in front of the Judge, the LEO explains that an agreement was reached between the LEO and the accused. Both parties agree in the presence of the Judge and the case is settled.

FWIW

[Region Warrior]

Group of cars in front.
99 GMC truck.
Sounds like profiling to me

[Brian Baker]

I wish we had that opportunity in MD, Phil...but we don't. I'll be going before a Montgomery County judge and make my plea and see how far I can get on the argument that I was too far away for the officer to get an accurate reading given the traffic conditions and the officers line of sight.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

I wish we had that opportunity in MD, Phil...but we don't. I'll be going before a Montgomery County judge and make my plea and see how far I can get on the argument that I was too far away for the officer to get an accurate reading given the traffic conditions and the officers line of sight.

If that is your defense, Big Man, you might as well pay the court right now.

The LEO has probably a hundred tickets already on the books that were based off of tracking vehicles from that exact same spot, and the Judge probably backed up the
LEO on every one of them. Now you are going to try and convince the Judge that the
equipment is not accurate from that spot, right (;>)

I would be willing to bet that the LEO had enough practice watching traffic to easily
pick out you from the crowd, lay the sight on your vehicle, and punch up a reading.
Now the deal is, how do you know that the reading on his machine wasn't from another
vehicle? he does not have to prove that it was your vehicle, he just has to state that he
tracked your vehicle and recorded the speed, whether it was true or not. he will win.

How can you prove otherwise? It sounds like a professional speed trap, "Revenue generator for the City" just exactly like the ones we have in some cities in Michigan that have been written up over and over on the internet.

http://courthouseforum.com/forums/thread.php?id=1051167

Tom Vaught