GTO Sales Flop........Detroit News, May 24,04

[pont3]

Just want to say to Mr Bayard you make some very informed observations. However, I do not condone your reference to Bob Lutz and his staff of being idiots. They did their homework and produced what would be accepted by the widest possible demograph based on market analysis. I have owned many new cars from Chevy to Ford to Toyota to BMW. Not one of them was perfect. I have possessed at least one Pontiac throughout my driving life and at least some opinions had complaints about each one. The body cladding Pontiac was so famous for during the '80's and '90's was deemed unsightly by nearly every automotive publications produced, but in my opinio, it looked great. I have not yet purchased the '04 GTO but I will within the next few weeks. I, too, considered the G35 Coupe, and 3 series BMW, but in my opinion, the GTO is a superior buy. If the car doesn't measure up to your standards, buy whatever does measure up. But don't knock what is desirable to other people.
Side air bags, or any airbags for that matter, are of absolutely no importance to me. I live in the St. Louis Metro area and as my daily driver 88 Monte SS, 71 Lemans Sport, neither of which has airbags, anti-lock brakes or any modern so-called safety equipment. I drive courteously and safely and I feel more secure in either of these vehicles than my wife's '03 Z71.

[HUMBLER]

I tried that argument before on a couple posts, it doesn't work.

[Mr_GTO]

Since when is the GTO $35K? Invoice is $29K and since it is getting close to July, expect rebates in the next time period and dealers wanting to deal.

I looked at a purple car yesterday. Nice nice nice looking color combo.

[HUMBLER]

Your interpretation of my comments are completely wrong. I rest my case...

[Nickv]

I think it's pretty damn funny that the GTO is already being written off. Hilarious.. 05 GTO redesigned. 06 GTO are already in clay form. I can't believe how some want this car to badly fail. Shame on these so called car guys.

[Nickv]

Well, Let GM get rid of Pontiac then, just like they did to Olds. Then get rid of Buick and then Cadillac. Since Chevy is the only one selling large quanities of cars why do we need the others? Obviously Chevy rules.

Problem solved, no more bitching about the GTO and Pontiac.

[Nickv]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 455HOGT37:
Don't look now Nick, but you bias is showing through (again). So it's perfectly ok to call someone like me a POS, or ignorant as in previous posts, right? Anyway, as I never mentioned or even inferred someone in particular as an idiot, I figured a few would self-identify. I'm shocked you fell for it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't recall calling you a POS. I think your sadly mistaken. Yes I'm biased and your not?.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
No, the car is certainly just a machine. When I say die, I mean as a product - like the T-bird. BTW, how many T-birds vs Holdens do you see on the road? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've seen 2 T-Birds in our area. There are actually 3 04 GTO's owners in my town. Also FWIW, a co-worker of mine after checking out my GTO is now in the market for one.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Anyway, it's too bad many of you can't feel good about taking a good product and making it great. It's as if the mere possibility of wanting more from the car will somehow trigger GM to confiscate your cars in the middle of the night as punishment for disloyalty. For the life of me I can't figure out your rabid, cult like devotion to this thing. Hell, I like my Yukon, and I'll buy another one, but I am certainly not above pointing out its flaws in the hopes that the next one will be better.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean like the rabid cult like following you have for the classic GTO? Who said no one want's the car to improve over time? You make it sound like the 04 GTO look will continue forever, like it will never change over the course of the next year or two. Upgrades and improvements are already set for 05. Or didn't you know that? For 04 the GTO is a great value for the money IMHO. It is a true GT type car with style, power, comfort and handling. Just what I want in a new HiPerf car. And you know what else? Even is this car was called the Pontiac Monaro, or Pontiac Lemans I would have still bought the car. It's that good of a car.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Soon enough we'll all know if the "cult" can keep the "GTO" a viable product alone, or if we do need the soccer moms and BMW buyers. Good luck. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't worry the GTO will be around for awhile. Get use to it.

[GTO 4MA]

Bye, bye Glenn! Now we won't have to hear you constant comparision of a POS Infinity G35 with an '04 GTO - a comparison that's not a comparison - go over to the Corvette board and compare a Z06 with a turbo Jetta and see how far you get there - Bye, bye, bye - just what '04 GTO owners say to POS Infinity G35 owners!

[svede1212]

i've given my opinion with my pocket book although i was sitting down when i bought it and not on my own two feet. after making my own path in life, on my own terms your suggestion although well stated is a little late for me. perhaps not here but on other boards i've stated my small nits with the car that obviously didn't prevent me from buying it. if you don't like it great, don't. what i find interesting is what is opined on these boards particularly by some (not all) "old goat" owners. my point was that they don't reflect opinion in the same proportion as in the real world (this is the cyber-world you know). pontiac sales numbers are way up. in talking with my salesman he said the car is pulling lots of lookers in. job done. the whole point of this "sales flop" theme was that the car did not have validity because of sales numbers. pontiac sales up, street acceptance is there. flop? my post was just to define where that measure misses the mark. you just define it the way it fits your world. don't worry 'bout it, you won't hurt my feelings.

[HUMBLER]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by humbler:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 455HOGT37:
Humbler-

I'll ignore history and pretend you actually want to know why I did not buy after the test drive. I'll go as far as saying the car just didn't turn my crank. Beyond that, I'll tell you to dig into the archives and read it for yourself, because back then I cared enough about the car to discuss it point for point.

Since the 04 is not in my future unless we see some deep discounts (which is getting more and more likely), I thought I would do my part to point out how badly you treat other Pontiac people at times. Mr. Bayard posted a mostly glowing report of the car, along with the items that HE deemed important to him. I read it with interest because they mirror my own impressions. I guess I should not have been too shocked when some of you tore him apart. I can certainly see that kind of passion for political and religious topics... but all that venom for a silly machine! Come on people, it is a frigging product anyone can buy at the store, like a dishwasher!

SO... To answer Horsey:

Read my post again without the attitude. It is good you like your car. It would be a shame for you to spend all that money just to prove a point. The thing to remember though, is that just because my priorities differ from yours and I decided NOT to buy, that does not diminish your experience. You should continue to be happy with your purchase despite what other people think. I am certainly not putting anyone down, nor trying to change anyones mind, just because they bought a Holden. By the same token, YOUR priorities should not be thrust onto others as justification for a purchase. For example, the 0-60 times are often compared with other brands and the Holden is often a clear winner. That argument doesn't work with someone who holds other virtues MORE desireable. Personaly, I would be willing to give up 25 HP for a bigger trunk and faster seats. Does this make me wrong... No, but it does make me a financially qualified, yet non-buyer of the Holden this year.

I'm hoping Lutz gets his act together for 05. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How badly I treat Pontiac people? What is that all about? Just "spirited" discussion here! You'll have to fill me in. I'm a Pontiac fan, so possibly you are refferring to some comments i've made to Ford or Non-Corporate folks but all justified IMHO.

Anyway, looks like Lutz got his act EVEN MORE together for 05!

Also, I looked back a little bit but didn't see where you said specifically what you didn't like about the car after driving it. I ask because it seems people either change their mind or like it even more after actually driving one. Styling, yeah we all know. But the feel, performance, interior? Just generally doesn't turn your crank huh?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>