[Paul Spotts]

prototype block #1 pictured. first step was to fit crank, check all tapped holes, deburr, dry fit etc. I smoothed out and enlarged all oil returns. When spraying wd40, certain areas of the block will retain oil, and of course getting the oil back to the sump is important.

[Paul Spotts]

prototype block #1 pictured. first step was to fit crank, check all tapped holes, deburr, dry fit etc. I smoothed out and enlarged all oil returns. When spraying wd40, certain areas of the block will retain oil, and of course getting the oil back to the sump is important.

[Paul Spotts]

all work is prior to machine shop - decks were not cut yet

pictured here is dip stick hole I tapped with 1/4 npt to plug - using Canton pan with external dip stick provision

[Paul Spotts]

pictured next is the large bore head gasket in place. This particular block had the coolant holes repaired, not an issue with the production run.

so far - so good

block was sonic tested and bores have plenty of meat with 4.350 bore. there was core shift, though and allpontiac is addressing that issue as well. Keep in mind this block is a prototype and all minor issues are being addressed. Of the 3 blocks being tested, all info is being compaired and addressed - pretty impressive - gotta love what these guys are doing to get a quality product out there.

[Ron]

Paul will this block be available without the cooling holes?

[Ray Cox]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ron:
Paul will this block be available without the cooling holes? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> THAT WOULD BE WAY COOL!!!!

[Lloyd-TX]

Thanks for the pics and info Paul.

Still waiting for the Butler iron block for my new 535" engine, however. Hopefully not too much longer!

[SupergasDil]

I knew Butler was woking on the Aluminum block, but was unaware of a new iron effort. What is the difference between the IA2 and Butler Iron?

Paul, That looks sweet. I want one.

[Jagtec1]

Excellent pictures and insight Paul. I checked the block sample out at VMP, as well as the 2 cross sections of old vs. new. Pretty impressive...that is the amt. of time and effort put into getting it right. I love seeing the thought and procedure that goes into the prep and testing...

I learn something new every day!

[Wade Congdon]

Ron,

The answer is yes, I asked that question in the VMP Pictures post. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...=399104926&p=2

[Brian Baker]

There is no "new" Butler iron block that I'm aware of, but I believe Butler still has a stash of IA-I blocks.

[Lloyd-TX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian Baker:
There is no "new" Butler iron block that I'm aware of, but I believe Butler still has a stash of IA-I blocks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Brian:

I've spoken with Jim on several occasions concerning their new aluminum AND iron blocks. Three iron blocks HAVE been cast, but they want to finish R&D and testing on the aluminum block before releasing the iron blocks for sale.

My engine builder believes that an iron block is better suited for my purposes.

I hate to step on any toes, but Jim has told me that the alloy in their iron block is FAR superior to the IA2 alloy and that each Butler iron block will be subjected to a "seasoning" process prior to shipping.

[Rob]

Would be something for the Butler's to produce a Cast Iron Pontiac block too! On the alloy statement, what is FAR SUPERIOR to excellent? I'm going to offer Cryogenic option for seasoning on the blocks I sell but I doubt anyone will find any material bonus from KRE, JPB, or All Pontiac.

I can say that IA/Dick Duclowe years were strong usuable blocks, IAII is well revised very, very good looking and will most likely be the first one available to the public. KRE's casting looks great, but machining hasn't been done. Haven't seen JBP's alum block in person but the pictures that were posted of the casting last year look really good and dynoing to 2900hp is a obvious sign. Don't know about the JBP plan for date of release to sell cast iron or aluminum.



-Rob

[Tom Vaught]

Wade,

I read that SOME of the holes were not drilled but not all of them so some plugging of the deck would STILL be required.

Do you agree or did I read that wrong?

Karen, I really like your new hair style!

Kenny looks like he is chubbing up on your good food cooking. Starting to look like me! LOL!

Tom V.

[Wade Congdon]

Tom,

This is a quote from TA Bob "All of the water cross overs will be blocked on the out board side of the head surface. The builders will transfer the holes that best meet the holes in the head being used."

I guess I took that as they would be cast, shut. I also had a conversation with Rob that if they were 5/16 that they could be opened further or plugged easily. So now I'm not sure.

What I can tell you is that mine were a PITA to plug as some were overlapping and required a very large hole to cover completely. I spent a weekend with a magnetic drill, a large selection of resharped end mills to find tap drill sizes, and pipe plugs

[Rob]

I believe this is one of the few things not completly revised on the IAII blocks.

I'm pretty sure several of the holes are what holds and locates the patterns when the block is poured. They become water holes, I'm pretty sure set up in stock locations. There are a couple of places where a second machining operation made end mill type cuts on one or more of these holes which I believe Bob and Frank already have worked on with Roush(probably the area where Wade had a deck plugging adventure). When the bore becomes siamese and 4.300 plus, o-ringing has always been a creative excercise(I would figure eight the wire ring for the two center cylinders and adjust the outers to stay out of water holes. Regular head gasket fire rings end up on top of stock placed water holes.

Not sure how Bob and Frank plan to offer the deck as many people want dry decks, many want plenty of cooling water holes, and others custom. I proposed a 5/16 hole in the same area of stock locations which is the drill size for 1/4 inch pipe plugs making life easier before decking. They may do much of the plugging and decking operation or leave it up to the individual engine builder. Many of us can handle the deck in any configuration, but if a private individual gets a block for street car type stuff, it would probably be best if they had a easy set of water holes and simple headgasket.

So what this long winded post boils down to is water holes on big bore blocks will need to be smaller for sealing. This will require water hole plugging of the casting before decking and then machining the water holes or not(dry decked).

-Rob

[Robert C.]

Yes we are plugging the out board holes. The casting holes have to be where they are now. We are no longer drilling them for the gaskets, because the bigger bores sizes make the gasket water holes to close to the bores. So until we have a gasket to fit the best head out there we are plugging holes or not drilling any. It is easier for you to drill then plug.

Now the upper holes that are cast are placed in a good location. We are not drill the three 5/16 water holes. You will have to drill them too. They will be a breeze to plug if needed. Again the head that is use will determine where to drill. We did this because the big horse power users ask us to do this. It saves a lot of their time and money if we did it.

Freeze plugs are now threaded holes. We are supplying them with the blocks. We added about 1/16 to each side of the main webs to completely cover the steel main caps. This adds even more strength to the main area.

About the metal: We are using the highest grade of Cast Iron that has the best strength and cylinder to ring sealing capabilities. To hard of casting material will cause early ring ware. There is a fine balance as to what you can use.

Inspection of the production blocks is running longer because we had to get special electric NDT (None Destructive Testing) equipment made to check the wall thickness. Because of the high grade of casting material that we use, a 5MHz (Megahertz) transducer will not measure the right thickness. We will not send out blocks until we are sure that we have the best block that can be made period. We are doing what you asked us to do, Do it right or don't do it at all.

Bob C. / Frank G.

AllPontiac.com

[Bud Lyons]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> We are doing what you asked us to do, Do it right or don't do it at all. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thank you.

[Tom Vaught]

Thanks Bob for the extra info.

Looking forward to seeing your block at Norwalk.

The threaded water jacket plugs I hope are aluminum with an "o" ring on the plug that seals against a machined surface?

Tom V.

[Rob]

Just when you think it can't get any better; registered mains and threaded freeze plugs!

5 megawatt tranducer? Those blocks singing when you check them?

-Rob